23

I donā€™t believe LSK has 4 frames landing recovery for a second. The only consistent way I can punish it is have them land on something really meaty or just hit them in the air.

24

no ive been playing against some decent online warriors (lol) and they punished me clean for it, mostly if i cross over them with it, but believe me it IS punishable.

25

Saying Jin is S-tier when heā€™s clearly not serves only to distract from the real focus of the character. For those of us that picked him up at the end of the day we got shafted and as a community we should most definitely focus on matchups because while he has some pretty good tools none of them have a universal use and every matchup requires a very different gameplan.

26

When you say your talking about doing MA MP during a block string, what exactly are you looking for?

BTW good seeing you on this board.

27

idk if im right but, if its during THEIR block string, the i-frames of MA will allow you to hit them for trying to hit you. During jins block strings you can SOMETIMES catch them crouch teching or jabbing or whatnot

28

What up dude lol. Jin is awesome.

Ok so there are several points where you can catch the opponent mashing at you while trying to block:

-Jump attack, c.whatever, s.jab. s.jab, s.mk, jump cross up attack, c.whatever, c.whatever c.whatever bla bla bla

So after you block something that would be considered a frame trapā€¦ throw in MA MP to make their hit whiff and hit them. you can actually get a counter hit crumple if you catch them just right.

Hereā€™s a good example we use from Heihachi.

  • f+LP:
    Start up - 6
    Active - 5
    Recovery - 23
    Adv on block = -4

-Muso Tettsui (f+MP)
**Startup - 15 **
Active - 3 (active on frame 16)
Recovery - 19

Since the advantage on block of f+LP is -4, that means that it gives 19f of block stun. by cancelling into f+MP, which has a 15f startup, there is a 4f gap between which you can hit buttons. If you do not just frame a 4f attack, then f+MP will hit you for the juggle and etc etc lose half your life for pushing buttons.

OR

if during the gap in this block string you use MA MP, you have 10f of invulnerability. calling the 1st frame of your block stun frame 1, the story goes like this:

-You block f.LP from Heihachi, Immediately do MA MP on Frame 1.
ā€“if he does nothing, he should be able to block MA MP due to the start up of MA MP and hits on frame 14.
ā€“If he goes into f.MP (and who are we kidding, heā€™s gonna do it) it will hit on frame 16.

Therefore Jin will hit heihachi during the second to last frame of his startup causing a counter hit stagger. The best thing is, you have a 2f window to do this. on the third, youā€™ll trade and both lose 100 damage.

If any of this is unclear please let me knowā€¦

That is correct. The only thing is, in order to get the counter hit, they have to try to frame trap you with a move that has at least 15f startup (14f would be perfect). Now, that includes any negative frames they might be at after hitting you. so lets say for another example Kazuya trying to catch you with an overhead is perfect for getting counter hit. if you notice your opponent doing blockstrings and then catcing you with overheads (both of them) then if theyā€™re being predictable, hit them with MA MP. All three Kick overheads (fLK/MK and b.HK) have 16f or more of startup. therefore, where you expect one of those, throw it out and hit them on the 14th frame for coutner hit.

However, know which attacks to do it after. MA MP isnā€™t always ideal. Iā€™ve been spamming it lately to see what i can get, but in some cases (like the Kaz situation i just mentioned) it might be better to just go with c.LP/LK hit confirms to interrupt them. Its less damage, but 10x more reliable at this pointā€¦

29

Ah, I get it. Iā€™m wondering more if I can use the MA MP against characters with good standing jabā€™s like Rolento or Julia.

I donā€™t have the frame data in front of me, but right now Iā€™m just kind of at the point where if they are just going to advance with standing jab I try to wait it out till they push me out of range. I was wondering if I can use MA MP, but I think based on what your saying if it trades itā€™s in my favor 100 dmg vs jab damage. If they block Iā€™m safe and if it counter hits I punish them pretty hard.

30

Frame Data (i forgot who posted itā€¦ feel free to take credit lol)

it wontā€™ work against standing jabs. Most have 4f startup so theyā€™ll beat your MP. but if they hit anything else theyā€™re doomed lol. And becareful about trading or getting beat by jabs. Many characters can get big damage of of a jab, even without conter hit. For example, my midscreen ruffus B&B:

c.LP, c.LP, c.LK, c.MK, EX Tornado, f.HK, f.HK, c.HK does like 400 damage lol. so yeah, people trying to trade with jab, jump out, or other jins doing MA MP get hurt sometimes.

In these situations where the opponent has turbo jab on, my suggestion is to just try and Alpha counter, or block and wait. time to be patient again :).

31

Yeah gotya, yeah the being patient part is not a problem. Part of me still wants to press a button, but good to know I had the right idea.

Do you find that most people online at least donā€™t get the message when you do MA to show your ready to AA them, and still jump anyway. Sometimes I find it funny, other times annoying.

32

Nah man. They gotta learn lol.

33

I remember figuring out MA>swaying willow against heihachis f.lp against my friend XD he was the salt. Im considering doing a video on his MA>SW uses what you guys think? gimme some other uses and i can post them! with credits ofcourse. Also ive found that even ryuā€™s overhead whiffs against MA idk if all overheads do this

34

Sorry if anyoneā€™s posted this before, but looking at the first combo (not gonna attmept the others yet, dont trust my execution skills), I think itā€™s possible to turn it into a tag combo. Playing around with it, you can do (close) s.HP, SS LP, s.MK, SS LP, tag (I use Akuma), HP. Shoryuken. No idea if this works outside the corner yet, but it can be done after the far LP > MP target combo or any SS cancelable move. Iā€™d post the damage but I didnt see it before I accidentaly wiped it, sorry D: (will try and do it again and post the damage up if anyoneā€™s interested)

35

yes you

can tag cancel SS>uppercut i do it all the time with my jin/raven team

36

Sweet :smiley: how many times can SS LP juggle? I cant seem to do more than HP, SS LP, s.MK, SS LP. Any other attacks seem to whiff. (Sorry if this sounds stupid)

37

SS LP max juggle is 3. so you can only get 2 due to needing a normal to juggle with. are you talking about in the corner or midscreen? there are much more optimized combos out there. Remember, SS LP does 60. so it is a terrible combo ender unless youā€™re focusing on Oki. SS MP does 130. Even those alone arenā€™t optimizedā€¦

38

Sorry to ask, but whatā€™s Oki? Also, thank you for letting me know about the juggle count, I was wondering why everything I did missed. This was in the corner, Iā€™m pretty much new to fighting games and Iā€™ve just been practising executing different but mainly simple things with Jin and Akuma (to varying degrees of success). I saw the first combo on here and wondered if SS LP could tag out so I tried it. Iā€™ve not really got much of a clue what an optimized combo looks like cause I cant do that much yet :S

39

lol Oki=okizemi. It is synonymous with ā€œMixup.ā€ Specifically mixup on wakeup. The reason SS LP is good for Oki is because it gives the opponent many choices. They can roll, sit there, quick rise, delay quick rise, mash throw, mash reversal, mash backdash, etc etc etc. The point is to give them so many choices that they just do something on reaction out of the fear of getting hit, learning what is the most probable actions they may do, and then fashioning preemptive setups to punish those options. its a pretty big deal lol.

Optimized combos are combos that do the most damage. if youā€™re trying to optimize your combos, youd do a higher damage move, or the most damage for the least meter. For instance, the most damage you can do without meter in the corner after juggle is:

Combo into SSLP, c.MP, c.HP, c.MP, c.HP, SS MP (to the best of my knowledge).

Doing just SSLP, s.MK, SSLP is leaving damage on the table andā€¦ well we would normally like to maximize damage output, especially for tournament play.

40

Thanks for the explanation on Oki and the combo advice :slight_smile: Iā€™ll get to practising that as soon as I get homeā€¦what would be a good opening for that? j.HK, B+MP, LP? And (sorry to keep asking stupid questions) whatā€™s a reliable tag cancel combo for Jin?

41

its all good.

The best setup for SSLP is anything leading into Shun Masatsu or c.MK,. So:

c.MP, SMasatsu SSLP etc etc
c.LPx2, SMasatsu, SSLP, etc etc
c.LK, c.LP, SMasatsu, SSLP,
c.LK, c.MP, SMasatsu, SSLP,
c.LP, c.MP, Smasatsu,
c.LPx2, c.MK SSLP (Floe Special)
c.LK, c.LP, c.MK SSLP
c.LK, c.MP, c.MK SSLP
And so on and so fourth. Please note that you can replace any of the first moves in these combos with j.HK.

To tag out with jin, I use, c.LK, c.LP, c.MP chained to fs.HK, Launch

Tagging jin in I always do c.MP, s.MK or c.HP, SS MP (or SSLP if Iā€™m looking for oki or another tag in, though IMO the damage isnā€™t worth it).

42

Wow, thank you very much for all the advice, Iā€™ll get onto practising all that as soon as I can :smiley: