sux that she can only airthrow in one direction though. Just think of the possibilities we couldve had. . . or not. dont try to frame cancel with her, she’s got some lag on just about everything.
!!!
this just in. grenade stops AHVB [kinda]. if you toss a grenade, and cable AHVB’s, the grenade will stillpass and hit him. stoppin the hvb at about 2 hits. waste of meter. and we all know an empty cable is a dead cable in the right hands. I just read this, i dont know who said it though.
Yea I was the one who posted bout that gernade thing with jill 
yes, my friend, candy corn is the shizzle. Iono about them camel/emu/llama things though
Wow, so many posts in such little time. Thanks for the info concerning the Cammy/LK Zombie as well as the Juggs instant death combo. I’ll give it try. However, I still stand firm that Flaming Zombies are more useful in the heat of battle because of their unique properties. Especially if the opponent is not adept to rolling (and an assist like Cammy’s is not available).
Oh yeah, I thank the llama for the grenade launcher information.
Keep the info coming. If you can make me an avatar please speak up!
OK, I have begun experimenting with a Jill/Cammy team and I must admit that I like it. I have never been a big Cammy fan (however, I played a mean Juni in SFA3), but I can’t deny the potential the girl’s got. Plus, as Jillfan poitned out, Cammy’s AAA will OTG after Jill’s slide allowing for some nasty air combos. Plus, Cammy’s AAA is invincible which is always a plus.
Currently playing: Jill (Dash) Cammy (AAA) Psylocke (AAA):
This team is awesome, because everyone complements each other. Psylocke, for example, can perform one of her air combos, end it in Butterflies, and DHC into KBA before the opponent hits the ground. The timing is a bit tricky though. If you wait too long, Cammy’s KBA will only hit once. Cammy’s Spin Dive Smasher can DHC into Jill’s Tyrant while Jill’s Hyper Elbow Tackle will DHC into the KBA or Butterflies. So as far as HCs are concerned, this team can wreak some serious havoc.
Psylocke has awesome mobility and a wonderful assist that allows for some nice OTG potential. Her Psi-Blasts are insanely fast, chip nicely, and can pass through beams too. I can actually shoot Psi-Blasts faster that Mega Man’s Buster Shots. The teleport is okay, but I use it only to escape corners when Cable’s not around. And her air combos are among the most devastating in the game.
Cammy’s great simply because she has the potential to deal insane damage. Her speed and the auto-tracking KBA help a lot too.
And Jill…well you know about her, right? In closing, what do you think? Try the team out and see if it suits you. Post your Jill team, and any thoughts you may have.
A really good way to combo into Tyrant is: c. short, c. short + Tron Y XX Tyrant then follow it up with that OTG, but yeah the timing is very tricky. I find Jill/Sent/Tron to be very effective as a rushdown team (the drones and rings really add to her game). Another team I like to use that is better for zoning would be Jill/Sent/Capcom.
Here’s yet another use for Jill’s crow:
d+HK, Summon Crow, Hyper Elbow Tackle
The crow will swoop down and hit during Jill’s HC adding a good bit of damage to the Hyper Elbow Tackle. You must cancel the HC immediately after the crow to OTG after the slide. This is a very useful tactic as it takes more damage than the Tyrant HC (even with the Rocket Launcher finish). Also, if your opponent likes to roll, it isn’t necessary to perform the slide first. Simply cancel the crow into the Hyper Elbow Tackle when an opportunity presents itself.
Jill vs. God Tier: Any thoughts on how to take them down with the right team? Cable completely owns Jill (outside the Grenade Launcher tip posted earlier in the thread) while the others have superior runaway (esp. Storm), power/chip (esp. Sentinel), and combo prowess (esp. MSP - yikes). Any Top Tier+Top Tier+Lower Tier team suggestions. How about a 2nd tier only arrangement? Jill can survive, right? :depress:
Jill versus Magneto would probably be the match that Jill has a good chance of winning. She can’t do much against Cable’s keepaway or Storm’s runaway. Flying Sent pretty much kills her too. To beat them, you have to fight them when there’s a hole in their patterns.
But versus Magneto: it’s all about limiting his movement. Mags needs to get close to dish out the damage unlike Storm/Sent/Cable. So this is where Jill’s lockdown comes into play. Pair her with Sent Y and Capcom B. Here’s a pattern I like to use:
flaming zombie, Sent Y, dog, crow, rushdown with c. shorts*
*if they block the rushdown attempts, dash back and call Capcom AAA with a crow (if you’re playing MSP anticipate Psy AAA each time you go in with those c. shorts). If you opt for Capcom AAA/crow, follow it up with flaming zombie, dog, Sent Y, jab grenade launcher (time the grenade so that it makes physical contact with Mags whether he blocks or not).
That’s it for now
Yeah, out of all the God Tier, Magneto seems to be the one lower-tier teams can try their luck against and actually have a chance of winning with careful planning. Thanks for the lockdown tips and strategies. Feel free to supply more strategies.
Here is an oddity I have recently found about Jill. If I’m not mistaken (though chances are I might be), isn’t it true that most characters are only allowed to perform one HC while in the air before they must return to the ground? Well, Jill can perform her Hyper Elbow Tackle (henceforth known as HET) twice in the air after a single superjump! Strange, no? It makes me wish Jill had a double jump. I’m not sure if this application of the HET has any great use, but try this:
Opponent in corner: Launch sj., LK, MK, HET–>HET before the opponent lands.
The second HET won’t combo but chances are an opponent won’t expect two HC’s in one air combo. Land it and the crowd will definitely have a newfound respect for Jill. Again, I’m not sure if other characters can perform two HC’s in a single air combo (other than Flyers such as Storm and Magneto), but I know that’s something my Psylocke/Cammy can’t do. Thoughts?
Sidenote: To stop Cable’s AHVB with the grenade launcher, should I use the LP (horizontal) version or the HP (vertical) one?
JILL
JILL’S INFI PLEASE
As of now, I don’t think Jill has an infinite. :depress:
There’s a pseudo infinite in the corner with Juggernaut B:
(After Jill’s standard AC and on the way down) call Juggs B, FP throw, Juggs hits, OTG into AC again. Of course, people can roll out of this and they can tech the throw or throw you first. Do it to someone who hasn’t adapted to your style of play. It’s a decent trick you can use to see how well your opponent pays attention.
Thanks for the semi-infinite! I’ll try it out ASAP.
Now, I’m going to explain all of Jill’s normal moves. Yeah, it’s a bit late, but other character threads have them so I’m doing it anyway. I won’t bother explaining medium attacks since they serve but one purpose for Jill: combo filler.
Standing LP: Quick/standard jab. Weak but starts combos.
Standing LK: Short kick to the shins. Same properties as the jab.
Standing HP: Great overall poke. It is very fast, and recovers quickly. The priority is great, too.
Standing HK: Think the s. HP, but with a bit more range and longer recovery. This kick is the same animation as her snapback.
Crouching LP: Starts combos, but isn’t nearly as useful as…
Crouching LK: Quicker than the c. LP with better recovery and priority.
Crouching HP: Jill’s launcher. One of the better launchers in the game (IMO). Fast startup and recovery. Good priority, and it launches the opponent straight up (instead of off to one side). Plus, it can OTG.
Crouching HK: Jill’s slide. Awesome move that travels across roughly 1/3 of the screen. This sets up Jill’s nasty OTG combos. This is your main poke along with the s. HP and jumping LK.
Jumping LP: Worthless move. Use the…
Jumping LK: Great poke that starts some seriously devestating combos.
Jumping HP: Not too bad. Still, it’s not that great either. Good priority but lackluster range.
Jumping HK: Use the jumping LK instead. This has range but nothing else is worth mentioning except it makes an average air-to-air.
Jill can combo a LP Elbow Tackle off of any of her normal moves. Her Hyper Elbow Tackle can be combo’d off of any medium or high attack. Causing damage with Jill is so easy that it must be a sin!
:lol:
Up next: The HP Elbow Tackle - Is it worth the effort?
Oh yeah, post whatever info you may have. I have thrown out a lot of questions, but haven’t really followed through on getting them answered. Remember: This thread needs strats vs. the God Tier, combos, recommended teams, strats vs. any character (take your pick- there’s a lot of them), infinites, etc. Thanks!
Good stuff, Im gonna try to fumble with that tonight, since i got my dreamcast back now. anduse he lp one, if you use hp, it has to make that high ass arc before it knocks cable out, the whole time costing you life. lp goes almost straight to him, saving you many hits, and many pixels.
remember kids, when all else fails, lp.lp.hp.H-E-T, H-E-A-Dcrush. 100%
Jill’s J. FP is actually quite useful. The thing about it is that you can delay it during a jump-in attack, which will throw your opponent off because they’ll think that you’re just jumping in without attacking (you can literally do a J. FP just as you land). It’s a good tactic, try it.
Her Fierce Charging STARS isn’t something you want to depend on entirely since people will know what you’re trying to do, but it’s one of the “odd” types of moves that Jill has in her arsenal that is worth using. When you’re charging this special, you’re game should switch from offensive to defensive. Essentially, you’re waiting to capitalize on a mistake that your opponent might make. Most people are going to keep attacking you when you do this so be patient and if you see an opening on a whiffed normal or special, inflict the damage. I try and wait until they both screw up on a move and have one of their assists out.
Note: You can OTG after you connect with this move.
My Jill teams:
Jill-Y/Sent-Y/Capcom-B
Jill-Y/Sent-Y/Tron-Y
Jill-Y/Colossus-B/Tron-Y
Jill-Y/Cammy-A/Iceman-A or Y
OK, I’m back to posting. I have been sick the past few days.
The jumping HP does have its uses, but then again, Jill can land much better combos off the jumping LK. If you do connect with the HP, try to land her launcher ASAP.
My sentiments exactly concerning the HP Elbow Tackle. It is definitely an “odd” move that is best used sparingly. It really isn’t necessary to play a good Jill, but is fun to throw out to punish mistakes.
I’ll start posting strategies versus the various characters now. I have not fought all the characters at an advanced stage, though, so please post your strategies (and comment/critique mine). Let’s start from the beginning of the alphabet…
Name: Amingo
Threat: 2/5
Really, this match is very much in Jill’s favor. It’s not that Amingo isn’t a solid character, but the fact that his arsenal of moves is easily punishable by Jill (even if he has decent assists). What you should be aware of is Amingo’s range. His s. HP, c. HP, and HP Onion Roll cover app. 3/4 of the screen and have nice priority. However, since he cannot punish you at extreme range (except with a few assists), feel free to summon zombies at your leisure.
If Amingo takes to the air, stay grounded and summon an assist. His j. HK has very nice priority and Jill lacks AA and air-to-air normals. Upon landing, he may call a friend to stall you while he brings out his cactus buddies. He can call up to two at a time and they hop fairly quickly. Since they can grab Jill, you need to hop away and pressure Amingo. This brings me to this point: Amingo is extremely slow. Painfully slow. And he lacks what I call Reverse Pressure. All he can do aginst Jill is pushblock! Wavedash back in and Amingo’s finished.
Amingo can combo both his supers fairly easily and has some pretty painful DHC’s via the vine super. For example, combo Vine Super->Gamma Crush->Hailstorm . The problem is Amingo is hard pressed to build those stocks of meter, and Jill doesn’t leave him many opportunities.
IMO, Amingo’s best asset is his enhance assist which raises the defense of his comrades by 50%. I’ve seen a few Storm/Amingo players before who’ve utilized this. It isn’t that big a deal, but no doubt annoying.
Wrap-up: Amingo’s best assets are his range and air priority. Close and pressure Amingo. If he pushes you away, bring out the zombies.
Post your character strategies!
I’m a firm believer in that each character in MVC2 has some sort of purpose and can be good if played properly, but there aren’t that many Amingo players that are good. I think if we’re going to discuss match-ups, we should go over the most frequently played characters. I enjoy this thread and I’m hoping for everyone’s sake as well as mine that we’re discussing Jill in terms of high-level play. Unless someone is feeling very inspired or knows what they’re doing, the chances of an Amingo sighting in tournament level play are slim to none and you can just as well bunch Jill into the same category. I apologize for offending you in any way, but I definitely think we should cover the ideal match-ups first:
Storm
Sentinel
Cable
Magneto
Blackheart
Doom
Spiral
Ironman/War Machine
Strider
Tron
Silver Samurai
Guile
Omega Red
Colossus
Marrow
Dhalsim
Wolverine/Bonerine
Cyclops
Juggernaut
Rogue
Cammy
Psylocke
Captain Commando
*BTW my list doesn’t really correspond to the proper tiering list asides from the Big 4, which are in bold.
I’m not knocking bottom/mid-tier play. I mean I am posting in a Jill thread plus Joe Zaza, Julius Jackson, Bonesaw, and VDO are some of my fave MVC2 players!! I’m going to PM Dasrik to see if he can chime in during these discussions.
More later…
Agreed. I believe all characters should be eventually covered but let’s start with more common tournament threat. I’ll tackle Psylocke first since I have been an avid fan of hers since the day this game was released. Feel free to post any of your strategies for other characters as well.
Let’s break Psylocke down. Here’s her advantages over Jill:
(1) Mobility is where Psy shines. Tri-Jump, Teleport, and dash speed outclass Jill completely. Her backdash is fast - second only to Magneto’s.
(2) Damage Capability - While Jill gives more damage punch per punch, Psylocke’s ACs will dish out tremendous pain. Basic AC’s ended in Butterflies take app. 60 damage while more advanced ones easily top 85 points of damage. And her tri-jump combos…geez
(3) Chip - Psylocke’s Psi-Blasts are extremely fast, can travel through beams, and have less startup and recovery than Mega Man’s Buster Shots. No kidding.
(4) When Psy comes out to play, expect MSP (or Magneto, Storm, and Psy AAA). This will be covered more in Magneto’s Strategy section, but you should realize Psylocke’s AAA is extremely fast and serves as a buffer for Magneto’s insane combos that can outright kill Jill. For the following strategy, I will assume Psy is on point though so don’t worry just yet.
(5) Priority - Yep, Psylocke takes this crown from Jill as well. Her Fierces are tough to counter as Psy isn’t exactly hitting with her hands (but instead, a weird sort of energy). Psylocke will mainly poke with her HPs.
Well, what does Jill have over the mobile ninja?
(1) OTG - You know this right? Capitalize after a connected slide.
(2) Speed of normals - All of Psylocke’s normals have noticeable lag, and you will see she often cancels a blocked punch or kick with a LP Psi-Blast. Jill, since she has very little startup on her moves, she can surprisingly pressure Psylocke a bit. But expect a teleport or tri-jump if you leave her open for half a second.
(3) HC damage - Well, this may be considered an advantage, but Psy can easily even the odds with her ACs.
(4) Defense - Psy can’t take much pressure, but Jill has some incredible defense b/c of her police vest. This evens the odds a bit.
Name: Psylocke
Threat: 4/5
Psylocke holds the definite advantage in this fight. Be prepared for a long fight. Jill needs a nice arcing AAA in this fight (such as Cable or Cammy) to hit Psy out of the air. Don’t bother chasing her as she will teleport to the bottom of the screen. Jill also needs a full screen assist like Storm Proj., Sent. Ground, or perhaps Doom’s rocks to lock Psy in place and allow Jill to wavedash in.
Punish Psylocke if she attempts her Psi-Blade if she is on the ground. This move is strictly used in ACs. If thrown out otherwise, combo her immediately. This also goes for any of Psy’s HC’s or a mistimed teleport.
If Psylocke takes to the air:
(1) Use Crow
(2) Employ AAA
(3) Watch your place. Because of her Tri-Jump, it is rather easy for her to cross-up and land an AC.
If Psylocke attempts a rushdown:
(1) Pressure her. Jill has less lag on her normals. All you need to land is a c. LK into a HET AC.
(2) Pushblock if cornered.
If Psylocke attempts to chip at you with her Psi-Blasts:
(1) Her Psi-Blasts are annoying. Moreso than most beams. This is the only time it is to Jill’s advantage to superjump and attempt an air to ground assault. Most Psy’s don’t have a decent AAA guarding them b/c in most cases she is the AAA on a team (such as MSP).
If Psylocke attempts to run the clock:
(1) Sigh This is very common tactic, and it works (unfortunately) well against Jill. The crow and any AAA may help a bit.
(2) Or you could try to hit her with a air Hyper Elbow Tackle.
(3) However, the best thing to do is DHC and knock Psy out of the sky with another HC such as Hailstorm. That’s all I have ever been able to do.
Moves to avoid when fighting Psylocke:
(1) Grenade Launcher
(2) Zombie/Dog Call
OK, so what else should you be aware of? Good Psylocke players are few and far between. Even some of the great tournament players play a fairly weak Psy b/c they are so accustomed to her a being an assist only. No videos even here at shoryuken display a mastered Psy. They simply show basic ACs that end in Butterflies, and decent runaway.
In a Jill vs. Psy match always go for the most damaging combos you are aware of. The psionic ninja has little vitality so this match will end quickly one way or the other. Any thoughts?
My take on Psy:
It’s obvious that she’s more of a concern when she’s playing behind MSP and Ironman/War Machine. It’s a fact that her value is greater as an assist as opposed to being played on point.
The thing with Psylocke is that she’s doesn’t do a lot of damage and in actuality, Jill can dish out more damage. I actually see this as being more even if not already in Jill’s favor. The things that she has over Jill are as you mentioned…speed and mobility. She has ways of getting around via triple jump and teleport.
Most Psylocke players don’t even use her teleport. It’s actually fairly easy to see where she’s going to go, but sometimes you can pull out a teleport to catch your opponent off guard, but like I said…most don’t even go for it. The only thing you really need to worry about when dealing with a Psylocke player would be two things:
You can lump the two together because as long as good DHC possibilities exsit (i.e. XX Hailstorm, Tempest, HSF, HVB, Proton Cannon) they’ll more than likely go though with the DHC. Her Maelstrom super (vertical super) is another super to DHC out of, but it’s mostly Kinetic Butterly.
Honestly, Jill can take Psylocke. From my experience, it’s better to make it a 1-on-1 type match. I say this because I’ll call out an assist at the wrong time and they’ll get punished by a DHC, which is what they want you to do. It’s kind of the same thing when you’re going against a compotent Capcom player. I’ve had assists killed by his Captain Sword DHC. You’re better off taking her 1-on-1 if you have characters playing behind you. It’s less costly and it’s a fight that Jill doesn’t have to shy away from. But this is all coming from my own personal experiences. I’m trying to get a little better at not calling out assists over every little thing.
Note: fire zombie/dog/fierce grenade launcher isn’t a bad thing to do against her. She’s not Cable.
The reason I avoid Zombies/Grenade Launcher is because they are far from practical against a Psylocke who either stays in the air or attempts to rush you constantly.
Yeah, calling out assists in excess is a bad thing but Jill must at least have a good AAA versus Psylocke. How else is she supposed to catch her? One on one, I still see this match very much in Psy’s favor simply because she plays so safe. Granted, as an assist she is more useful. MSP seals that. However, sometimes I think people are quick to scoff her point game. Against Jill, I would see her as a bigger threat than the other mainly assist oriented characters, Cammy and CapCom.
Also, how exactly does Jill go about causing more damage than Psy? I’ll try to find a link to some vids, but I remember seeing ACs in which Psy took well over 100+ points of damage without the aid of a DHC. Sure, Jill can play mean OTG games, but what if Psy rolls? As I said in my previous post, Jill gives more damage punch per punch but lacks the combo prowess that Psy has. Jill needs to use her assists carefully to have a chance of winning.
Psy’s teleport is rarely used as you said. But I have seen it thrown out simply as an annoyance tactic when I attempt to superjump after her…:lol:
Edit: The link to the Psy vids is http://www.vidness.rrcol.com/ . Watch the combos at the end of Videos 1 and 4. Very scary…
Thoughts?