o_O
I’m sure you’re not so obtuse that you fail to apprehend the meaning of the quote that YYB quoted.
It’s impossible.
But I’ll play along.
Okay then.
Why is it that you reject all other deities, yet accept 'Da Bebe Hey-Zeus?
Please, elaborate this for me.
You can even include smart rhetoric, if you are so disposed.
Only difference is one uses logic while the other uses “faith.”
They could have teamed up. I’m not the one to make claims like that. I do know however, that if they teamed up, they wouldn’t win. Some of them found out the hard way. The devil isn’t the first and last person to denounce God’s greatness, but he has been given authority on earth, and he’s the most meddlesome.
Fundamentally speaking, Roberts gave an excellent explanation as to why this discussion is even happening. I get it, God doesn’t make sense to some people, and as some of you have argued, God simply doesn’t make sense. There’s nothing to guarantee that I can make Him make sense, but I will do my best to try.
The way I see it, Job 26 is all about God’s power. Then the chapter concludes by saying that all the things previously mentioned in the chapter are just the “Outskirts of His Ways.” and that “The thunder of His power, who can understand?” Some scholars call it the most theologically powerful verse in the Bible. Why? Because it’s basically saying that no matter how much we think to understand about God, we’re just scratching the surface.
If I started counting to infinity right now, I would still never get there by definition of infinity. Is it futile? No, because I would gain some understanding about what comprises infinity, but I could still never reach full understanding. People teach about infinity though, because some of math’s greatest problems are only solvable when infinity exists.
Yeah, but I used 80’s music.
Point taken. Carry on.
One of the most profound arguments I think I’ve ever seen is [media=youtube]y3VAEYEG53w"[/media] Some may have already seen it, but the ‘jist’ is that millions of people believe that God performs medical miracles everyday. Cancer, diseases, and the like are miraculously healed all the time. But never, ever, in recorded history has an amputee grown back a lost limb. Never. Wtf, God?
Until later tonight, this is the best I can leave you with.
http://www.mwilliams.info/archive/2006/04/why-wont-god-heal-amputees.php
This is really only an answer to the amputee question. The rest of the questions are answered within the Bible in one way or another. For instance, the question about the poor, or the statement about drinking blood or eating flesh. I’ll work on making a statement to the questions I can answer, but right now I have to go to school.
I, personally, believe the entire Old Testament is made of fables, which occasionally include people who actually existed. The story of Job, in that way, is just telling people that if you maintain your faith in God in spite of hardship, you will be rewarded. Because of that, you have to somewhat discount anything in that entire story arc.
That said, the previous quote by Roberts is beyond stupid. Trying to find any worth to it makes you ever-so-slightly-stupider. The majority of non-atheists in America are going to be people like me. Just slightly different from agnostics because their moral compass is held by a few threads to an established religion’s dogma. To say “well, I believe in one fewer God than you” makes the assumption that he knows intimate details of what I, and the majority of people who disagree with him on an issue he has no real authority to speak on, believe…even when I’m not even sure what I believe.
No.
Not really.
What he is asking is that you pause and reflect on the “why” of your rejecting other belief systems, and, after that, see how this can just as easily be applied to your own.
He’s not presuming any knowledge of your beliefs. Rather, he is pointing out what would by all appearances be a double standard.
Also, your presumption of knowing what the majority of non-aetheists believe - that they are “people like you” is exactly what you slam in his argument.
Further, if you’re not sure what you believe, then it follows necessarily that you do not believe in anything, else you’d be able to assert it.
But of course that was a throw away line, anyway.
Because you’ve already stated that you are a non-agnostic non-aetheist.
Which, to cut out the dross, is to say that you are a theist.
I know people personally I feel would be better off without religion, but I don’t presume to lecture them about what’s good for them. Once I do that, they stop listening.
However, that’s assuming that I have anything I want to say. As far as I’m concerned, when the theists in this thread conceded that their religion does not withstand skepticism, my interest in the debate disappeared. They seem to think that there are things in life more important than skepticism, and you know what? I agree.
I HAD faith that this thread would get closed somewhere around page 4… WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?!?
^_-;
I just hit Him up on His cell phone. He’s in Miami.
Now as a prophet of God, do you want that post to go on record as being interpreted allegorically or literally? Even though you won’t have any control over the matter, I thought I’d ask you, just in case, you know, it makes you feel better or something.
Either or. Allegoriliterally. Interpret it that way.
I called Him back, and He says that’s a word.
Fixed it for ya.
been thinking about right vs left, boy vs girl, black vs white
wonder about it sometimes
sometimes i think dualism manifested itself in me and that other people aren’t dualist
poor me
or maybe i’m just stupid i don’t know
if thats the case i’m probably too lost to be a good person, maybe
Actually, even the atheist is the one who doesn’t use logic, they just think so. Wasn’t it you atheists that proposed a “Jesus never existed” documentary and gave all sorts of uneducated information such as Horizon meaning Horus is risen and all the other stuff? Didn’t you read the excuses to debunk the resurrection here? All of them where ridiculous, the only good argument against it was Net’s Carrier reference.
We all know that when it comes down to scientific, CREDIBLE evidence; atheism takes the upper-hand. Even religious people will admit that, hence the concept of “faith”. Unfortunately this *faith *is based on an archaic, faulty, out-dated book who’s purpose was to stop the otherwise primitive nature of man through fear. That was then, this is now. People need to realize this, as religion is delusion on a mass scale.
Societies progress, and unfortunately religion impedes this progress, in many different ways. The obvious one residing in the conflict between religion and science. Christianity wants to ban stem cell research, one of the most promising breakthroughs in science today; as well as discouraging the use of condoms, in a society where STDs are growing and growing. This is the exact opposite of what I want my tax dollars to be going towards. Religion just does not fit.
One of the main goals of religion is to compose a set of morals and values for you to follow. Your religion tells you right from wrong, and acts as your conscience. It serves as training wheels for your rational thinking ability, and when removed; what we have is a shaky and unstable accident, careening into the closest ditch in which gravity guides it. Without religion we have the ability to think about our morals, and contemplate what is right and wrong. While “Treat others how you would want to be treated” are words to live by, it is tragically outweighed by the unfortunate specifics of the bible. Specifics that most educated Christians would refer to as “hermeneutics”. It is true that the golden rule is very redeemable, but passages like Corinthians 6:9-10 (to name a few) completely undermine the “central” truth around the bible. And it is more than plausible that human’s are able to conjure the message the golden rule wishes to convey by ourselves, being that we are supposed to be thinking, rational beings. Not to mention people who believe in imaginary beings are delusional.
We then must ask ourselves; “Is religion necessary?” To which the answer is a resounding no. Is a holy book and following necessary to maintain a good society? Obviously not, as many atheists have morals, without the teachings of the bible. This can only lead me to the conclusion that religion has no place in society, as it only impedes progress and conscience. I could also go on about the countless casualties religiously-based conflict has caused since the beginning of it’s institutionalization, not to mention it’s sexist and prejudice roots; subjects I could write an entire manifesto on alone. And as the countless conflicts religion causes grow exponentially;the more obvious it is that religion is one of the worst things to remain existent in modern society.
The love me or burn in hell is an non bibilical teaching. Hell (the inferno world where non-believers go and burn forever) is a made up concept created by the Church to install fear and control towards the people. It is a myth and i think it is of pagan origin, probably greek/roman myths (Hades). It was a form of dictatorship, and this concept is still used by a bunch of red necks.
In the original translation, Hell in Hebrew is Shoel, and Shoel translates as Grave. In greek Shoel translates as DEATH… the only area where we get the concept of the fire hell is in the NT, however the greek word for fire is synonymous with the word cease; meaning the person ceases to exist. Hell is a death sentence for people who actually deserve it (i.e. hitler). When you study the bible, there are small clues that give a divine court room like concept after death: After a person dies, that person will be judged by God not every criminal gets the death penalty here and not every sinner gets the same. A right justification will be served. The pop “don’t believe you’ll spend eternity in hell” concept is contradictory to the just judge who is god.
here are the verses
"And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. "…
“Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny”
“There is a sin unto death (shoel): I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.”***
Heaven also is also a misguided concept, because during the time of the OT, the idea we have of heaven today didn’t exist in the beliefs of the hebrews. Heaven in hebrew is simple the sky; the regular sky we see right now, however The greek word for heaven is synonymous with kingdom, glory, and power. So we return to the kingdom/glory/power of God.
The whole after life you atheist think of (you die and the body either goes to a paradise or goes to burning inferno pit with demons) is actually very wrong. This is why i always suggest you actually know Biblical teachings before you actually address a problem. It just shows that your biblical understandings are all misinformed
There are laws that have a huge penalty, and these penalties help assure a sense of control to prevent the person from breaking it. Why do they break it even if they are well aware of the penalty? Why are their people who choose to murder even though they know where it will lead them once they get arrested? It is the same thing with God. God created moral laws and established them in our humanity; we all have a moral sense against murder, violence, stealing, etc… we don’t need religion to get us to understand the evilness of those things. Problem here is that we all have our difference in mentality, or preferences in what is wrong and what is right. Most of those serial killers did have a deviant mentality that they have a reason for their actions that made sense to them only. i have watched a couple of docs about some killers and from most of them, it didn’t sound like their motives was based on hate; something very deviant and twisted though. They possibly developed that from their environmental exposure that fucked up their psychology? We can’t say. What would be the right justification for them on earth? Certainly, to the victims of the family, those murders should seriously have a fuckin painful death. I admit that i would demand that justice if so one of the victims was a loved one, or if i was actually one of the victims. However some people have their own opinions on the rightful justification, most people felt that killer should serve a life time sentence instead of an execution due to his psychological illness. We people have our own views on justification, so in that sense i also believe God has the same. The reason why us Christians don’t face any problems with the “if God exists, why are there pain/suffering/death/evil” questions, because the Bible tells us that God will give the right justification to those people who have fell victim and those who have done the evil.
Actually, it’s like the other way around. I think if you go back to the earlier pages you can see a good academic basis of “faith”… and see the baseless counters against it. You’ve watched Zeitgeist, have you? You know, the documentary that Christian theology was rooted from early religions and to sum up that Jesus never existed? Did you know how academically fallacious every single information that movie was? I have not seen a good academical refutation against the resurrection yet; a good evidential case that Jesus was indeed a Magician that pulled magic stunt and intentionally bullshited his followers with it. With out it, the academic known as Sociology science still stands.
I don’t believe in a right religion, however i do believe in a right God and he can be academically proven.