Awesome, thanks man.
I didn’t realize Magnus combos sent HSD so high without even a hyper, that’s crazy. Something about all the weird states hypergrav induces maybe? I can do a of stuff with other characters and even hyper before going to Devil Trigger and still do a solid follow-up.
And yeah I know about the Tempest thing (was using hypergrav into Tempest/DT for the capture state) but you’re right that the methods you have are better. That’s dirty stuff man, cheers 
I meant you can let Tempest hit fully, then DHC. The combo gets 120+ hits before you snap, but it just doesn’t seem worth it.
EDIT:
Found an older video using the wrong assist to demonstrate:
Bonus:
@slippaz hitstun decay is a combination of time, number of hits and air vs ground hits. Hyper grav loops are lengthy and airborne.
@t37rampage I’m impressed. On paper the neutral game looks strong all around and the level up Options are feasible if you can hit those combos. I personally wouldn’t call it the best team without seeing it in Action but that’s me
In the team guide I made (still in editing) when I discussed Magneto I put him as somewhat a wild card beside I knew he had tech like raw tags but wasn’t sure how he could implement them and get over the needed number of hits. Would definetly be interested in citing those as a footnote during that section if you don’t mind.
The level up combos can be done off of anything really. You can hard tag off regular flight loops, just do four reps of dash H and end it with down-forward dash S. I use this to convert off of Jam Session, works midscreen as well. The combo that FChamp does works off of shopping cart and always carries full screen for a similar result. I would record some matches of me vs Rubeks but I don’t have any capture devices.
You can use whatever.
Do you have any recent footage to take a look at? I’m curious to see how it all comes together in practice.
I do not. There’s sometimes a stream at one of the locals (Insomnia), but the guy that does the streaming has been busy with work lately. Next time he shows up I’ll get on.
Bummer; Danke said you/the team was legit so I wanted to see it in action. Solid Frank team + play is in short supply. Was hoping maybe your evo quarters got lucky and got recorded offstream or something. Oh well.
Sorry if this has been answered somewhere else but when frank is a lvl 5 has anyone else noticed that his assist comes out faster? I can only connect felicia’s st 
+ :a1: when he’s at level 5 or am I on crack?
I don’t think there has ever been any word anywhere that level 5 frank gets a speedboost. Have you tested it thoroughly? Can you get us a video example?
I’ll see what I can do.
@T37Rampage : So I’m working on my Mags and loving him (holy shit plinking around with him is fun lol), but I have a question about your team order…
My only issue with Mag/Dante/Frank is that it seems like you’re kind of screwed if Dante gets snapped and you can’t orchestrate a Skydance hard tag into your combo. What do you do in this situation?
Mag/Frank/Dante would still work with the add.S into THC, but you’d lose the lower-damage leveling options, and that’s a big loss. I guess you could hypergrav xx Tempest and DHC for the capture state in that case? The team would be basically snap-proof as far as leveling Frank goes–although if Frank got snapped you’d have to get a clean confirm without having used Jam Session to get level 4…but that’s doable. I guess you could do a THC when Disrupter’s still in cooldown as well. On the other hand, you’d also lose the Dante/Mags order if Frank dies, and to me that’s a negative.
I was wondering if you had thoughts on that.
If they snap and kill Dante, I will usually opt to combo into tempest xx shopping cart and XF for the level 5. You end up with a ton of level 2 XF time left and the chip will basically force them to use their XF if they don’t just get hit first. You can also just save XF and settle for level 3 Frank, with the option to DHC back into Magneto for a kill most of the time, then you can level to 4 off another hit with Magneto or just hard tag level 3 Frank back in and put in a little extra work.
If Dante lives and I get a hit with Dante/Mag/Frank I will go for Skydance hardtag when available, but more commonly just TAC into Magneto and hardtag off the resulting flight loop. You can also call Magneto assist at the right time to TAC directly into Frank. There’s still the XF option if you need to kill the character and don’t want to risk a TAC. Sometimes, if I get a clean hit and can kill the character with a regular combo into DHC, I will opt to do so and forgo leveling Frank. You do not have to level Frank at every opportunity, this team is just as much a Magneto team as it is a Frank team. Magneto/Assist/Assist is advantaged over any two-character team. It just so happens that the hard tag level combo does even more damage than regular Magneto combos.
That’s fair, and I hear you on the XF2 option. It seems like a good time to pop it since 1) Frank’ll probably win anyway and 2) Frank builds a ton of meter, so even if he dies you’ll very be able to gravity squeeze the last character. Magnus with Jam Session/Cart sounds great in terms of opening up options as well–meaning privileging a problem character kill over leveling Frank. It’s what I really like about the team honestly. I’m used to running Nova/Frank/Dante, which means I only have 2 stellar neutral assists. Your approach seems to be really flexible vs. re-ordering in terms of neutral synergy. The Acid Rain xx DT hard tag that Fuzzykips posted in the Level Strats thread might also be worth practicing because it means both Magneto and Dante can hard tag out from anywhere on screen.
I’m still thinking about Mag/Frank/Dante, but I’ll admit that the high-damage THC route with that team isn’t going to give quite as good an order as it would with your team. It’d be more about leveling with Million Dollars to get Mags to anchor, but, again, I’d be losing out on the level 5 + kill potential. I’m gonna try em both once I get my Mags up to speed, though. My guess is most people aren’t going to jump straight to snapping in Dante anyway, and you can always swap the order during a longer set if there’s some kind of problem. Either way, along the lines of what you said, Dante with Disruptah/Cart is in pretty good shape for a number of matchups.
Much appreciated on the response.
Okay, so I’ve been learning about Counterhits, and what combos you can get off them… so, that being said, what are good meaties with Frank? I’ve been trying to practice them in real matches but I keep getting neutral tech -> jabbed out of them. Are there any that cover all three techs, and what would you need to end your combo with to set them up? The only thing I can really think of is air Tools H (after ground bounce was used), then meaty with cr.M since it hits in both sides, cancel into Tools L, then on counterhit you can link another M into combo.
Not sure man, that’s the only thing I can really think of because of the 2-sided hitbox. I always assumed Survival Tools into dash back s.M covered all 3 techs in the corner, but its possible neutral tech’s too fast. That being said, I can’t see jab hitting Frank in that situation even if it came out; you’d just have to worry about whether or not there’s time for a hyper maybe? I’ve found it really reliable, but I almost always call it with Jam Session, so I’ve never experimented with what you can do if it hits meaty. I’m in the frozen wilderness of Canada sans-Xbox for 3 weeks so I can’t test anything lol ~_~ Post up what you find, though, I’m interested!
I dunno if I or anyone else have mentioned it, but I found something interesting that works really well with Jam Session, and probably could work with other assists. Once you have your roll, if you’re in throw range on the ground, an option is to press back H + assist, followed by H + S (or whatever button + S).
If you get a throw, the assist will not appear, and you can use it for the conversion.
If the throw is teched, the assist won’t come out, and neither will the roll.
If you end up whiffing a st.H, immediately doing the roll will prevent it from connecting, and the assist will come out keeping your roll safe.
Just food for thought. Speaking of which…why can’t Frank cancel his Level 4/5 st.H once it hits?
So Jam Session users…I think we should talk about incoming mixups more. What are you guys using right now to deal with pushblock?
Doing Zombie/Jam Session/Roll is great, but we’re really talking about 1 50/50 there. If you have a character without air mobility maybe you have 2 between the Zombie and Jam Session, but at the end of the day, having Zombie hit one side and Jam Session on the other right after isn’t going to force the opponent to switch blocking sides (unless they land between the two, which you probably don’t want). What can we do about it?
One thing I’ve been messing with is using the throw/momentum caused by Jam Session to set up a second 50/50 when the opponent lands. If you Roll (when Jam Session comes out) so that Frank’s back is to the corner, the opponent is going to be on the corner side (your side) of Jam Session. This means that on the last hit, Jam Session is going to propel them toward the corner. If Frank takes a small step forward before that point, this means that you cross them up again (they pass above you). No step forward means they get thrown into Frank and keep the same side (Frank cornered opponent not). You can use Frank’s multihitting normals to hit meaty when they land by just hitting s.M when Jam Session ends. They land in the middle of the normal’s active frames and blockstun resets for the last hit or two of the Medium.
If the opponent pushblocks the last hit of Jam Session, Frank hasn’t actually done anything to touch them at this point (s.M should just whiff), and you have a free FFC opportunity that’s entirely reactable. (It’s possible you could Air Throw as well, but I didn’t test the untechable post-pushblock frames vs. the recovery of s.M.) Since Frank’s cornered this means that FFC puts the opponent against the corner and you don’t have to even do the slightly more HSD-intensive side switch after the pickup.
Writing this, I’m realizing that using cr.M might actually be better than s.M…cr.M has a slightly lower startup, 2 more active frames, and gives Frank a lower profile to let the opponent pass over him after the throw from Jam Session (if it didn’t hit at incoming height). Cr.M also means that you have no chance of hitting even the largest characters if they pushblock the last hit of Jam Session (even delayed), so you can reliably hit your FFC. I should also add that when Jam Session throws the opponent, the time from last hit to being grounded is really short. Theoretically, the mixup could get blown up if the opponent pushblocks right before they land and cr.M is active. Just going by my memory of the timing (and I could be wrong), I think it would take some serious practice in the lab to be able to do that consistently.
Since I’m sure that anyone playing Frank/Jam Session has a very good sense for exactly how long JS is active (simply because of how it’s used with s.S in combos), timing that small step forward correctly might result in a true 50/50. If it’s reactable, then you could always take the step forward and choose whether or not to backdash/cr.M right when Jam Session ends. This shit can be really confusing when you force them to cross up.
Anyway, I just labbed this for a few minutes, but I wanted to throw it out there in case anyone has suggestions or reasons why it might not work well. I’m hoping to look at it more later today, but I want to hear how other people are going about setting up their incomings as well.
I also only tested it on one character (IIRC Nova), so I’m not sure that all characters’ bodies will act the same way in the conditions. Gonna look into that one.
Yeah this definitely throws me off lol. Man, I wish f.H could be just hyper canceled btw…backing it up with Frank’s counter hypers would make that move so much better.
I thought you could cancel it, but last hitbox only.
As for Jam Session on incoming I am still a fan of doing (call Dante) then snapshot to FFC. If they get hit by the snapshot or pushblock to ruin your FFC timing, they fall into Jam Session and you have time to recover. If they block the snapshot and get nailed by the FFC then the Jam Session never hits. Pretty awesome deal really.
Yes, I like this as an option for sure. Call me reckless, but because the meaty Jam Session into Snapshot xx FFC Guard Break (not the one you’re doing, but the one I posted a long time ago) is pretty well known these days, I actually sometimes do meaty Jam Session and inch toward the corner so I can Snapshot xx FFC. Basically, the opponent sees the Snapshot animation, pushblocks against it, and doesn’t realize that Snapshot doesn’t hit at that height when you’re directly under them. You’re essentially tricking them into pushblocking Jam Session instead and you get a free FFC.
Now that’s obviously risky as hell, and it’s only good against people who know the setup already. Still, it’s a cool mindgame tool.
Also, because pushblock keeps them fixed in the air for a second, you don’t have to cancel into FFC until you see that they actually pushblocked. Worst case is that you recover from Snapshot as they land and have to Survival Techniques the startup of the normal they try to punish you with. Vs. throw you’re screwed, though. Wouldn’t actually recommend doing this, but I’ve pulled it off 
Well you can also option select something silly like bH as they land to break the grab or grab them, or do his amazing sH. I think you can roll cancel sH (will have to check) and could then cancel into ST. The options on incoming with Jam Session is just plain unfair. The other thing you can do is to call Jam Session and use cM then cancel cM with SRK+L into whatever you want. Thats a vastly underused tool.
In fact, something I have been looking at is to cancel a cH with an assist into SRK+L and then following up with jump loops. Should work with a wide array of assists. Between that and the sH with assist into QCB+L you should be able to set up jump loops or Tools L loops (level 4+) with just about any assist. I’ll have to look into that.