Just wanted to let you guys know that I think I figured out how to set up Frank’s TAC infinite from a side or down TAC anywhere on the screen (not just the corner). I also have a theory for the up TAC version.
Once I get my stick repaired I’ll play with it and make a video.
Yup 
I’ve been trying for a while in training mode, seems like the time frame is very strict.
So far I get no vomit at all or just regularly when he’s back on the ground.
good information here guys, a lot of stuff for frank, I was playing a team: Frank/Spencer/Doom(beam) and frank on point was fun for me, but then I played against Zero May Cry team and I cried like 3 weeks because of that (j.k) but its ok because they are pro players (from chile) and they told me to get rid of frank, is a waste of character, but since day 1 umvc3 I main this team, because I have a lot of fun with it, but they told me that at least, I should use missiles to get max damage for spencer and change frank (1st) for spencer, and I was in the lab and I had the spencer zip loop and doom missiles combos in training, and now I dont know what to do because I cant rush with spencer as BEE does, and is the only reference for a Spencer+frank I have to watch, if you guys can help improving my team it will be great, and I really like reading what you guys say about frank and I also share that we NEED a good frank west player, no someone like BEE, I dont mention Noel because Justin used frank better.
My roommate fixed my controller!!!
Unfortunately that means my project is delayed a bit, but I can get back to work on it.
Late reply to this but I gotta call you out because I just verified in training you can easily do a jump and falling QCF+H instead of the roundhouse when calling Nova for 17,600 more damage on the combo and what looks like 2-3x as much meter gained from that hit.
Keep optimizing! Squeeze that shit in!
Already well aware of that; it’s a matter of optimization VS pragmatism. Roundhouse H works off more combos since it has less startup, and doesn’t get me killed if I mess up the timing. I’ll take reliability over 17k damage.
I guess we just look at it differently.
Messing up the timing on anything can get you killed, and that substitute is not hard at all and works at the end of every combo that can end in air string > roundhouse + nova I’ve tried throwing it in.
I don’t see a reason not to do it and couldn’t call a combo that does less damage/meter gain than is practically possible “optimized” but obviously do what works for you, I just read optimized and assumed you thought that was the best you could reliably get off that combo anywhere on screen.
Optimal and practical use always have to be bridged in order to be used effectively in matches. Most completely optimal Frank combos are grossly impractical; zombie H and bottle toss hit confirms all that since he’d do absolutely stupid damage if he had more moves that were single hit before he went into the multi hit stuff at minimum. Or take something like grounded MH Tools M wavedash MH Tools L M S for hitconfirms, while having some degree of practicality, isn’t really worth it because other factors like spacing, hitstun based on the wallbounce, etc even though it’ll do more damage than going straight into an air series. There’s bigger picture concerns too; if I’m level 4 frank and am about to OTG + Nova call and know that 2 tools M aren’t going to kill my target and that’ll need to burn a bar, whereas 1 tools M + meter usage still will, I’ll forgo my second tools/roundhouse, take two snaps instead, and get level 5. I’m passing up more damage and a bit of meter for something I consider more important. Optimization of meter VS damage is a factor too; hit confirming off a single hit attack (an assist, S, whatever) can let you do more optimal damage by doing single hit attacks rather than busting out the chainsaws. That said, your meter gain is going to tank, so you’re better off finding a balance between the two.
In this case, Tools H for the OTG is practical. But the payoff isn’t there for me personally; It’s a different timing than other otgs (and with Spitfire snapshots, log trap snapshots, centurion snapshots, and centurion roundhouses, I have enough to ingrain into muscle memory) and also for linking your tools M. And I personally find myself more likely to whiff that than a roundhouse. I’m leaving a bit of damage on the table; oh well, I can find other places to make it up, and they’re dead anyways.
So, I’ve been a Frank main since this game came out and I feel like I need to discuss him for a minute and bring up some things ive learned about him.
First off, Frank is at best a HIGH tier character probably somewhere arounds 12-14th or something of the sort in my opinion. This guy definitely has his strong points, but boy does he have weaknesses.
First off, Franks high low game is VERY weak because he does not have a low other than his Cr H at ALL levels. All players have to do is get used to seeing his Cr H and they can block Frank for days. He also suffers from getting zoned out and outspaced UNLESS he is at level 4 but even then, i still think he struggles with vergil, taskmaster, dante, zero, mags, possibly Dr Strange, Wolverine, and a few others.
The BIG problem with Frank is that you are sacrificing damage and meter build (in most cases) to build him up to make him a good character. In a sense, the other team only has to kill you and 3-4 guesses and you are working with 5-6 on most of his team set ups.
There is also the negative that you build a team around him and not use him around other characters. If you cannot level him up, its basically going 2 v 3 against someone because level 1 frank is close to bottom 5 in this game at level 1. (The best frank teams are the ones that have him mid and there is a character at battery and anchor who can help to level him up.)
Examples would be dante-frank-vergil, vergil-frank-dante. wolverine-frank-amy, wolverine-frank-dante, vergil-frank-wesker,
Some great things about him is that he is both a GREAT ASSIST and on screen character similar to mags, doom, and dante.
He also builds meter like a chief in lvl 4 and up and has one of the better defensive 1 bar supers in the game.
Personally, i just feel like people are now learning how to fight him and level 4 really isnt as scary as it was at one point. He just gets lamed out and lacks a solid approach without assists. To me, Frank is a footsie character and just has really solid normals. The fact that he has very poor mobility as well also hurts his approach too.
I think Frank’s roll and zombie moves are incredibly overlooked somehow.
Oh and btw. SRK+H hits low. So he has two moves!
As for the zombies and roll. You can do some silly stuff to projectiles with them. Anyone play CvS2?
Frank is mid or mid-high. I wouldn’t put him on high because he’s a liability on the team and still has bad matchups against zoning at 5.
Me too. I think I mentioned how good CP Zombies were for mixups, rawtags, and incomming mixups. The full use of them though, comes with a fast assist or a lockdown assist.
Fun fact i just realized: Frank teams are very easily outmatched by Phoenix. You need to snap in phoenix and in order to do that, you have to give up strong level up opportunities. Most of the time, franks strong ways to level up for most teams are used with 2 bars.
So in this case, not only are you sacrificing bar and damage to attack phoenix, but you are also sarificing frank leveling up as well.
Not really. The roll is good for evading certain attacks and hypers (gimlet, bionic arm) and also good for creating cross ups with assists but beyond that, it’s a roll similar to caps, jills tele, and x23 mirage.
Zombie tosses lack fast start up and his oil can toss is decent at best.
Franks a solid character and hes my favorite to play, but im realizing hes not as good as i thought he was.
pros:
-works with pretty much any character in the game in theory
-great assist and SOLID character unlike RR, sentinel, and dr strange.
-top three set of normals in the game overall (lvls3-5 are more sets than 1-2)
-excellent meter build
-one of the best level 1’s in game
-TRUE anti air
cons:
zoned out easily
needs to sacrifice damage and meter build WHILE focusing on leveling up for most team set ups.
weak high low game
if not at level 4, you’re basically using a top five worst character.
-reliant on strong lock down assist to GET inside
-loses to push block/advancing guard.
Basically, over the past day or so ive looked at Frank like this and asked myself:
Why in the fuck do i want to WORK and SACRIFICE damage and also take a CHANCE on having a shitty character if i can just choose another one and have a FULL character from the start of the round?
I do not need to TIER WHORE to form a solid character that is close to or just as good as Frank. Skrull, taskmaster, dormmamu, felicia, strider are just as complete as Frank is.
If you want to keep using frank and you want to win then you either need to pick up team Bee or use Vergil in front rather than Spencer. No other teams have tod combos that level up frank and get to use easy mode hit confirms off of jam session roll mixups. If anyone on here disagrees I’d like to see video evidence of you blowing up sponsored / top players with your current strategy.
I’d both agree and disagree with that pretty thorough evaluation. Frank’s fantastic meter build and seriously powerful chip damage guarantees a lot of DHCing, and with certain characters, Spencer, Dante, Vergil, and others I can’t think of, Frank in certain teams gets almost guaranteed kills in a combo AFTER going to level 4. The zombie throw (not the spin, the hammer throw, the spin is overused, I think), despite slow startup, gives him powerful incoming and wakeup mixups, especially when rolls can come immediately before or afterwards. Such good left/right game I think bypasses the lack of a high-low game. Also, his high/low game isn’t nonexistent, as he can j.L with assists or lvl4+ j.M into knee drop on a lot of crouching hitboxes for instant overheads, that or slide, good enough high/low for most characters, I’d say. He also only gets zoned out easily if you don’t have a strong projectile assist, wine and triple arrows beat out a lot of projectiles. Also, roll into tools super at level 4+ is a fullscreen punish for almost anything, and any invincible or high-durability DHC (hey look, once again Spencer and Vergil are great examples), can convert that into some serious damage. Hawkeye has to be careful about speed shot frametraps when that you can roll between them and chain the roll into a zombie throw, and then follow it to get in from fullscreen, I’m sure there are other examples. And when he gets in from levelup setups, he’s usually pretty close, and can stay close with rolls and horizontal assists keeping you in when they advancing guard, the assists more for safe rolls. If you have a dedicated zoner or zoner-counter as another teammate, you can find the time to switch them in and fight the matchup how you like, Dormammu and Vergil fit the bill there.
And unlike X-23, and other command rolls/teleports, you can chain Frank’s roll into moves halfway, making really ambiguous situations. Zero style. Actually, X-23 has it too, but not as good, she can only chain her mirage M halfway into talon L. But you also have a frame-positive dive that can chain into an invincible roll that can chain into other stuff. No one has that level of special-to-special stupidity except for Zero.
But, yeah, you’re right, him at level 1 is pretty garbage, but in this game where first hit wins because of Zero, C.Viper, and other stupidly good incoming mixups, if your Frank setup falls apart, it is sometimes no worse than if you’re running Vergil second. On the other hand, a first hit on your side can result in a level 4 frank, a dead character (if your team is perfect for Frankie, which very few are, I think), and your own stupid-good incoming games. The plus to Frank above most is that with his chip he is at a heavier advantage if they block your mixup. If they don’t it’s the same old mahvel. I’d say Frank is a gamble but keeps your momentum better than 70% of the cast, and I personally like having a lot of meter, one of the best anti-airs, and big normals to help neutralize the opponent’s anchor and slow down their game. On that theme, he has a fantastic anti-phoenix game once levelled up. He just amplifies the momentum-based stuff that mahvel’s already about. I’m sad to say that I don’t run him right now, but that’s just because I don’t run Vergil, Spencer, Dante, or Trish, and they are kinda required for a good Frank team, I think, there are certainly other schools of thought. I think he needs one of 4 or 5 characters or he is truly an unnecessary character, but with them he’s pretty hot.
Also, I’m more on the Japanese tier list for Rocket Raccoon, he’s really strong but damn difficult, but that’s a whole different character and really isn’t meant to be talked about here
Advancing guards are a big problem still, though. I used low voltage and task arrows with roll to keep close, but usually pushblock stops my crossup game. I think the next step for Frank tech is advancing guard baits, something like Wolvy has.
Ooh, I forgot, one unique thing lvl1 Frank has is, with specific assists, confirms off his air camera, which has a pretty insane range. I know he can do it with Dark Hole. He can also instagram Vergil out of swords if he thinks he’s safe and goes in, as Vergil is wont to do.
I’m calling the camera move “Instagram” from now on.
I think Franks biggest issues are that he does lose to zoning WITHOUT proper assist support. (I agree certain assists help him get in but with this, he loses the ability to lock down like jam session or drones may do)
Hes also VERY weak to advancing guard
wait, can he cancel special moves into roll? if so grounded L tools to roll to more shit would be amazing.
i usually like to cancel normals into zombie throw. (QCB L) it frustrates a lot of people.
Another big problem for him is that although his normals are long ranged and do great chip, unless you are decently close, its difficult to connect to S sometimes.
No, roll into special moves, normal moves or knee drop into roll.
The other way around would be so very broken.
Sometimes it’s easiesr to land a conversion into S if you go slide right beforehand.
Completely the opposite, if you’re playing a Phoenix team you get to level Frank for free, they have to tech side TAC, you go down, get your extra meter, level up Frank, kill a character or snap.