obviously you’ve never played anyone like Ciernian (sp?). If you’re gonna use it in “3 secs” your opponent could just count “3 secs” and then do said avoidance tactic
well, for all the one hit fs’es (link, marth, zelda) it allows a person who is down in the game the confidence to try to combo into thier fs without worry of it being knocked out.
my question is if someone is if player 1 is down 1 stock to 2 stock, and he gains the fs, k.o’s the other person, if player 2 attacks player 1, will he be able to knock it out?
i’d test it myself, but i’ve been moving all month.
Yes, we know the dragoon is banned, asshole. We were doing some research on items in general, and I can tell you really appreciate other people going through the effort.
I would completely debunk your argument, but that doesn’t matter anymore. Someone can just come over and say “lol quit it with the theory fighter” and suddenly I’m proven wrong. I can bring video evidence that will completely debunk everything argued against it. Then people will counter it with “they totally didn’t know what they are doing, they shulda dun X then Y and they totally woulda won”, and if I argue against that then people say “lol quit it with the theory fighter.” Hell, I can give you videos from EVO tournaments, like the amazing one in 2k7 where Wong came back with just his Cyclops. I could say, “His opponent should’ve done X and Y and he would’ve beat Wong.” But what the hell does that change? Those are top level players, right? What-if arguments are bullshit, yet when a pro-item player comes in to say it, they are automatically the ones who are right. And the best part about this is? The pro-item players whom everyone automatically agrees with despite the hypocrisy or idiocy of the arguments are NOT the top level players. The top level players are the ones who are anti-item and are brushed aside by everyone else. The Justin Wongs of the Smash world all weighed in on the subject, and were anti-item. Does that matter? Apparently not.
And thats it. Thats my last post on SRK debating items. I’m not going to deal with it anymore. But I’m smart enough to not assume every SRK user is as pretentious as you are, so I will continue to share the knowledge and research that we gain with you guys. But as soon as I see you guys don’t give a shit anymore, then I’ll stop sharing. Because I don’t have to. I’m just doing this because I can, and I feel that if you’re going to use items and research them then you might as well be thorough about it. I’m just glad there are a few SRK users (seriously like 3) that have a head on their shoulders.
This is not an items debate thread. Its for facts about items. So, putting researched stuff here is the right thing to do. NO items are banned in all-brawl, and Rank 4 brawl (the one we SHOULD be playing) has everything except heart/start/tomato/curry. All information is welcome in this thread.
The fact that someone can say that a different course of action would have yielded different results simply shows the depth of items play. What you need to realize, Panda, is that SRK and SWF have different criteria for what warrants a ban and what constitutes as competitive. Items-On works. Trying to debate that is does not is a lost cause, and the sooner you can get your group to realize that they are arguing simply over a preference, the sooner they will stop jumping feet first into the stereotype they have had to deal with all these years from us.
I feel like I must note, though, that Smash has no ‘justin wongs’. Justin is Justin because he is great at every fighting game, not just one.
like what? I use G&W,you can run but you can’t hide!:tup:Tentacles all in up dat mouth,ass,and pussy!:tup:
thank god!
a) We aren’t banning the items. Its a setting in the game. Why is EVO using stock instead of time? Time is the default, and time has plenty of depth, so why don’t you use time? Oh wait, because you PREFER stock. Just like how we PREFER no items. Which leads to the next point,
b) Realizing its a preference goes both ways, Keits. Only very, very few people on either side of the argument actually realize its a preference issue. I KNOW this is a preference on my part. A preference that determines whether or not I go to EVO (which I would love to do), which is why I tried to show people some of the reasons behind my preference.
Oh yes, and the stereotypes that smashers had to deal with all these years far predated our community banning items. If you want to continue this discussion further, do it in the SWF thread (but keep it civil). This thread is not the place for these discussions, and mods seem to lock any thread on these boards that have the word “item” in the title.
Masher, you’re incorrect. You have to aim every FS, outside of FSs like Snake’s or Pit’s, you’re not going to just use it.
Panda, you’re stupid. The simple fact is if you don’t fuck up, you’re not going to die. If you don’t put yourself in a position to be killed, you’re not going to be killed. And just because it’s a tourney vid with top-level players doesn’t mean they’re immune from having a mistake pointed out. I mean, in the 2006 Daigo vs. Afro match, you can’t say “oh man, Ryu jHK tatsumaki crossup is so fucking broke and needs to be banned cuz it killed Afro and he’s a top level player amirite?!?!?” You can say, in confidence, that Afro shouldn’t have gotten crossed up twice. And if he hadn’t gotten crossed up twice, he probably wouldn’t have died. But really, I don’t see why it took you so long to say “I’m done.” With the way you’ve been running your mouth on Smashboards, I’m wondering why you even came here. And with the current wave of “oh man, hammers are SO BROKE,” despite the fact that more than a few Smashboarders have gone to see Keits’ match vid against Doom Squirrel, where their forums’ maturity and wit becomes obvious, and the clearly explosive, game-changing power of the hammer becomes clear with two hammers appearing in the match, yielding a total of zero hits.
So yeah, post your research, because it’s invaluable.
No. Wrong. It’s because time battling leads to a blatantly dominant runaway strategy. Time gameplay breaks the game. I bust out Sonic. I kill you first. I run like hell. I win. Especially since you don’t have shit on like the thunderbolt (or whatever it’s called), which I think is going to be an issue at Evo.
No. It doesn’t go both ways. Every fighting game ever has played with everything possible in the game unless it’s proven broken. Now, just saying something’s broken without experimentation, practice, tournies, or knowing what the fuck you’re talking about might fly on Smashboards, but it doesn’t here on SRK. Preference doesn’t, shouldn’t and has never mattered in serious fighting games. It shouldn’t start with Brawl.
What stereotypes? That they’re stupid kids? Scrubs? Yeah, they’ve certainly shown everyone the error of their ways with this whole series of events.
Edit: Didn’t wanna sound like a jackass to Masher. Sorry :sad:
never dealt with G&Ws. but most people, you do NOT want to use their moves the exact moment you get them
sigh lamewadd, seriously don’t turn this thread into an item debate. I’ll respond to you, but I don’t want to continue this line of discussion in this thread.
What are you talking about? When did I say something like that?
So then you say that video analysis is stupid, yet you require everyone who has an argument that is against yours for video evidence? Yeah, that makes sense. And for the record, you’re agreeing with me that analyzing a video and saying “Oh, he should’ve done X and Y” is bullshit.
Running my mouth? Again, what the hell are you talking about?
No comment on the match, as I’ve stated above that analyzing a video and saying what they SHOULD have done is stupid. And when did I ever say hammers are broken? Here’s the answer: I didn’t.
Lamewadd, I know you’re just a troll that doesn’t hold any respect, which is why I’m ignoring this.
You are so right. In stock, you can’t run the timer down at all because its decided by sudden death. Oh wait, EVO threw out SD as the deciding factor. Also, how can you say its a dominant strategy? Quit the theory fighter.
See? This is what I was talking about. Very few people on either side of the argument realize this is a preference issue, and they throw out ignorance as fact like lamewadd just did there.
And for the last time, I don’t want to continue this discussion in this thread.
Panda - then stop it. And OF COURSE i know that both ways are preferences. Are you retarded? How many times have you seen me on SWF crying and telling them they are doing it wrong? Meanwhile, they invade my youtube videos and tell me I suck repeatedly. Wow, great group you have going over there. But you know that, and thats why you keep the backroom open, so you dont have to deal with most of your community’s members. I’ve said it 100 times, and this is the last time in this thread, but…
Some people like items off.
Some people like items on.
Some people just like brawl and will play however.
Some people think its necessary to try to force every tournament to run the same ruleset. These are the people I loath
I was kind of hoping this wouldn’t turn into an argument because it’s a very useful thread :.
get the debating out of the thread. stop being retarded.
you can be for items and you can be against items. that’s fine.
but even if you are against weapons, this isn’t about bashing weapons… its about learning as much as possible about items. this isn’t a debate or an argument thread. its about finding what possible defenses and offenses can be established with weapons.
i wish i would have contributed to this more, but i’m busy… but regardless, it shouldn’t have turned into a “swf guy found this, now you’re item crusade is a wash” bullshit. and arguing with him is equally as bad. i would simply just get the debate posts deleted and get this !stickied! thread back to the reason why it was !stickied!..
i enjoyed the bit about the item priority. it could be useful. but with all the controller priority shit going on, i’d like to run my own tests before even thinking that this is going to alter my strategy on dealing with fs’es anyways.
For some reason if anyone who’s recognizable from SWF posts research, others attack them thinking they’re anti-item. The moderation here is about as bad as it is on SWF. Trolls like lamewadd should be banned. I’m not sure why he’s still around.
Just for clarification, I never posted that video on SWF. Heck, I hardly ever post there at all. So there is absolutely no indication whatsoever that the people who commented on that video are smashboarders.
Those comments are pretty hilarious though, huh?
Actually, even on the Spam boards like General Brawl Discussion, while moderation takes time, it’s fairly consistent. Spam (even moderate such) and trolling and other rule breeches get you warnings. Threads are locked down if they’re bad/useless (like, reaaaaally useless) and people are actually banned once in a while.
It just takes time.
I don’t think you did anything wrong. But I don’t think a bunch of random people who’ve never played Smash happened to congregate for a Keits hate fest.
And it’s funny how people who made threads specifically to bitch and say they’re not going to Evo are calling me a troll. But hey, if Smashboarders were smart…they’d be on SRK.
Anyway, BACK TO ITEM KNOWLEDGE.
keep this thread on track please. all of you.
Escape the FAN [media=youtube]wTiLyNv_Qtw[/media]
Avoid Assists [media=youtube]KsQaymTTAVw[/media]’
Ok next we need “how to dodge final smashes” videos.
I’d like to see wolf, falco, snake, sonic, and luigi on a really small level. I’ll be happy to be the guy in control of the final smashes as well. Or maybe bean, he’s really good with the landmasters, I have yet to avoid one of his Final Smashes.
There’s probably some other troublesome ones too but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head.