Can’t believe it’s taken this long for co-op battles…I mean, damn, it took until BT2 just to have a half-assed proper Goku/Piccolo vs Raditz and Goku vs. Jeice/Burter fight…and Goku/Vegeta vs. Meta Cooler…
As for RB2, Plan would be decent enough to get the game, but I’ll wait until it goes down in price, because honestly, I think BT3 looks better than RB2.
i got a question
who trained in the gravity ship longer (i dont know that ecactly its called)? Goku when he was going to Namek or Vegeta when he was preparing for the androids?
Vegeta by far. Goku’s trip to Namek was only 6 days. Vegeta’s cross galaxy trip was a couple of years.
As much as I am a Goku fan I will have to say he got lucky and was pretty much just raw talent. Vegeta trained like a mad man and got about half of what Goku ever got. It’s crazy to say but I wouldn’t put it past Goku if he could have went SSJ 2 during the cell games. He seemed to always want Gohan or the next man to do it instead since he has always saved the earth.
Didn’t Vegeta spend those… 3years [after Freeza… before the Androids] getting up too 300g in his base and learning to SSJ1? And would it be silly to think the Vegeta that got killed by Freeza [ie after a Krillin assisted Zenkai] was at least 3 times stronger than the Goku who arrived on Namek [ie before a Ginyu assisted Zenkai]?
Despite how they sold their 1st match up… Vegeta puts in work… and Goku is the natural… at least ever since Gohan sat on Vegeta. Had Goku went into RoSaT with Trunks rather than Gohan… I’m pretty sure they both would have come out stronger… but maybe not SSJ2.
Possibly, but Gohan had that hidden power within which Goku didn’t grow just yet. As far as Goku being lucky goes, he’s been lucky since day 1 of DBZ. Think about it. Raditz, Vegeta, Frieza, Cell and Buu could’ve killed him if they used their full powers off the bat; instead, they toy and underestimated him as a fighter which gave them L’s.
Actually, it would be a bit crazy to think that. It’s probable, but who knows. Breaking down some power levels on Namek and the Saiyan Saga.
Vegeta was around 18,000 on Earth during the Saiyan Saga, Goku was around 8,000 (no, he indeed, was not over 9000…), hence why Goku needed to go Kaioken x3 to beat him. When Vegeta first arrives on Namek, after what happened on Earth, he is 24,000 (which means Goku with KKx3 could still hang with him even without the Saiyan power boost after near death). After getting manhandled by Zarbon, he was upped to 30,000. Now, something a little off topic but to keep in mind, if the Ginyu Force had arrived, it’s likely Vegeta and Nail would’ve fought. Nail would’ve won (42,000 to Vegeta’s 30,000).
Anyway, moving on, Vegeta, 30,000 before getting beat down by Recoome. Goku, when he shows up, is 90,000. The 180,000 Ginyu got on his scouter during his battle with Goku was ONLY after a Kaioken x2. By that time from the spaceship, we know Goku could possibly go Kaioken x10 putting him at 900,000, albeit for a very short time. Unfortunately, we don’t have an accurate reading on Vegeta’s power levels after Krillin blasted him, since he didn’t even touch Frieza, so we don’t really know how strong he was. Best thing we could go by is his fight with Gohan on Earth afterwards. He probably was stronger than Goku, but who knows by how much.
Of course after Goku got his body thrashed courtesy of Ginyu, his level jumped to 3,000,000, and then pretty much, PL’s went obsolete as the levels got too high.
As for Goku becoming stronger with Trunks than Gohan…maybe, maybe not. Only reason Goku got as strong as he did was because he and Gohan went in SECOND. But I don’t think Goku would’ve gotten any stronger. He needs a lot more time to train into SSJ2, on top of that, no one really knew WHAT SSJ2’s true form looked like until Gohan did it. So Goku was never really trying to ascend, he was just trying to take his SSJ power to its absolute heights. Only after the Cell Saga, and seeing Gohan’s ascension, did he really put in work to do so himself.
Some of that stuff is incorrect since I watched nappa 2 days ago and the other fights last night.
He did go over 9000 against nappa, which wasn’t kaio ken assisted since he didn’t use kaio ken until his last attack against nappa.
The 180,000 reading Ginyu got from goku was legit, Goku was literally standing around doing nothing before it and Ginyu told him to stop sandbagging so he powered up to 180,000, no kaio ken.
I dunno about this, since Vegeta stated that Goku’s PL was 8000 in the manga, and Goku most certainly said Kaioken during the Ginyu bit in the manga. However, events in the anime may differ (even though Goku had the red Kaioken power aura around him during the Ginyu charging period).
Also, I’m not really comfortable picking nits with a company-translated manga that was published a loooooong time ago as my source.
I’m just going by the anime, but i’m sure of those two things since i just saw them in the last 48 hours, it might be different from the manga.
There also no logical reason to use kaio ken while powering up, even after he finishes powering up he still doesn’t attack. He goes back to telling them they should leave the planet it would be the most wasted Kaio ken attack in history.
You need to do more reading. He didn’t go Over 9000, that was actually a VA mistake. He’s actually 8,000. Also, to further prove that, if he were indeed Over 9,000, he would’ve only needed KKx2 to compete with Vegeta, he wouldn’t have needed to take the risk of KKx3.
And, no, the 180,000 was definitely after KKx2. You might want to rewatch that episode.
You forgot one thing: Goku is the reigning champ in the category of “giving the enemy one last chance.” He assumed that if he flexed real hard on Ginyu, he’d go run like a bitch.
Not to mention, remember Goku’s power and state at the time. The Kaioken doesn’t burn him out that much unless he goes all out using it, or uses a level higher than his body can handle. He used a Kaioken x2…not exactly that tough for him to use, ESPECIALLY at that time.
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There, the power up against Ginyu where he goes 180,000.
So… lets work with base 90,000 and KKx10 of 900,000 for Goku’s Kaioken limit.
and… 3x 90,000 is 270,000
I don’t think Vegeta establishes himself having an equivalent technique to Kaioken, though he mentioned being aware of a similar one, so he doesn’t actually multiply his power. When fighting Juice earlier [after recoome thrashed him and he ate a senzu] Vegeta should have been comparable to the Ginyu force’s “red magma” in power [ie 60,000 to 80,000] but bellow the captain himself [ie 120,000].
Now, something a little off topic but to keep in mind, Freeza claimed to be using 10% of his 1st form’s power [10% of 530,000] to beat Nail [42,000] with one arm behind his back. Vegeta rivaled Freeza’s 1st form before Krillin shot him and Dende healed him. Vegeta’s PL rivaled 530,000.
Now it’s true Vegeta didn’t touch Freeza’s final form even after the zenkai, however we can be certain his PL exceeded that of Piccolo’s which we know exceeded 1 mill which Freeza’s 2nd form was very close to… While I think Vegeta should have been stronger than Freeza’s 3rd form… [] I can’t really place a number on it. 3 mill is likely too high for Vegeta, but IMHO 1 mill isn’t high enough… Now, something a little off topic but to keep in mind, if Freeza used 10% of his final form’s power [ie 10% of 120 mill] against vegeta, that leaves a bigger gap for his 3rd form to fill and allows for Vegeta’s base to still be higher than Goku’s [however unlikely]
IIRC, as Goku did not see Vegeta’s or Trunks’ new transformations, going in 2nd should have no bearing on his progress. Goku also wasted a lot of time needing to train Gohan into SSJ1, on top of that, Trunks’ base PL was likely much closer to Goku’s for actual sparing purposes. Had Trunks, under Goku’s instruction, tried taking his SSJ power to its absolute heights his resultant mastered SSJ1 or a mastered ascended SSJ1 should exceed Gohan pre-SSJ2. Trunks also would have likely insisted on staying the entire year.
somethings also worth noting…
Vegeta claimed to have reached his father’s PL [~11,000 maybe?] while still a child himself.
Goku was pretty close [8,000] to his father’s PL [10,000] while fighting Vegeta.
Gohan over shot his father’s PL 3 times in DBZ; twice before puberty.
F.Trunk’s had a higher PL than his father after RoSaT training, even if in an unusable form.
kid Trunks and Goten went SSJ so young they don’t really seem to remember not being able to.
Vegeta had a higher PL when Trunks was conceived than Goku had when Gohan was conceived.
ok i’m totally out of rant
Yeah, I figured Vegeta was stronger. But we never REALLY had a solid look at how powerful he was after he got blasted by Dende, since the next time we see him in an actual fight, he’s a Super Saiyan.
As for the whole HTC, remember, Goku could sense power levels while inside it, with previous knowledge among other things, he could guess at what Trunks was doing.
Also, would having Trunks as a Full Power Super Saiyan really help? If it’s as you say, and he would’ve stayed the Full Year, the Cell Games would’ve still probably happened, thus having…the same exact results as before, actually, honestly, it would’ve been disastrous. Like I said, the Cell Games would’ve happened (because Vegeta was going first no matter what and we know what happened with his whole pride thing). The only difference is, Goku would not know about Gohan’s ability to reach SSJ2.
Doing some research, and knowing how Gohan can get during a battle, it’s very safe to assume that Gohan had actually ascended to SSJ2 sometime during the time in HTC with Goku, but for a very brief time, hence why Goku would be so confident in putting him in. Honestly, if Goku wasn’t ABSOLUTELY sure Gohan could hit that level, he wouldn’t have put him in there. Hell, even when he was sure, Piccolo had convinced Goku to get Gohan out of there (of course, Cell wasn’t having it). So Goku would’ve had to at least witness the transformation. By training with Trunks instead of Gohan, he does not realize the transformation exists, and Vegeta probably doesn’t waste his time helping Gohan out thus screwing them in the long run.
Honestly, Goku didn’t really waste his time with Gohan. They both became Full Power SSJ’s in their year, and Goku really couldn’t get more powerful as he would’ve needed more time to reach SSJ2 himself. So honestly, changing anything probably would’ve screwed everything. The only thing that would’ve changed was that there would be one less person looking like a fool during the Cell Saga.
Anything else to touch upon?
Well, besides Goku and Gohan staying in the HTC for only 9 mos., you’re pretty accurate with everything else 
. Vegeta and Trunks used the HTC for a total of 2 years inside and still wasn’t as strong as Goku or Gohan lol.
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Just how much did the RST boost the characters? Would they have gained more power if they’d been in there with a really strong opponent to fight against (Broly or Bojack-level), but under the condition that they couldn’t be killed, rather than just undergoing psychological stuff and sparring with someone close to their own level?
but that 90.000 wasnt even goku’s max back then so you might have to recalculate 
btw goku actually wanted to rest (I think he secretly wanted better challengers) when he was training gohan, even gohan wondered “how did dad get so strong when he was focusing on training me” goku could of easilly carried on training and wiped cell out first time, he was just uninterested in fighting a concoction of all his friends and past people he’s already steam rolled.
I personally like to think that after goku and vegeta fused and defused they retained a portion of that fusion power respectively, but we all know the buu saga is all over the place so there’s no point of even guessing what’s going on 
I think leaf killer [Saitsuofleaves] covered it, but also find it very disappointing that Vegeta and trunks couldn’t remotely catch up with there 2nd RoSaT training, particularly after acknowledging how Goku and Gohan trained. And with the son family spending less than a year [~9months] it seems it took Gohan less than 9 months to learn and master SSJ1 in contrast to how long it took Vegeta even after he had a PL over 1 million just to learn SSJ1.
RoSaT doesn’t offer a quantitative boost; it’s a room with harsh conditions and a different increment of time passing. The quality of there training and the time spent is what effects the boost. What I think you’re suggesting is a comparison of that training to a forced Zenkai, with a Broly or Bojack PL foe as the threat to overcome, although not getting close to death would negate that about as much as actually dying and being wished back.