Pre-jump frames has been increased to 7, but I don’t think that would be a really noticeable difference.
if your playing online i kinda have a feeling my inputs are getting dropped sometimes my crap dosnt come out pisses me off
I’m curious to hear how you guys have been using EX RBG. I’ll cancel into it off normals and I’ve been getting a lot of mileage off that, but I’m looking for some more ideas.
Here’s some notes from my experience playing live people and playing online.
The Magic Serie
- I realized that you really don’t have to do the hit-confirm combos like you do in SSFIV. There’s no point in trying to do some Bread’n’Butter ending in EX-Green Hand.
- Doing those magic series are important and it’s abusable by EVERYONE. You have to do it.
- One of the best magic serie punish is s.mp x s.hk x s.hk (launcher). If you see someone whiff a move from a punishable distance (for example a DP), that’s one of the best way to punish.
- While all the EX-GH option selects are still there, there’s no point. With the exact same purpose and mindset, you can option select s.lk/c.lk/c.lp/s.lp into the magic serie. As an added bonus, you can also use s.mp/s.mk if you feel confident about them. I’m still working on removing those EX-GH options selects habits because you need the meter for other things in this game.
- Once you launched your opponent, you can then use that extra meter to bring Gief back in with a cross cancel if you’d like. This is matchup dependent mostly.
Getting Zangief out
The main ways I found out to bring Zangief out of play are :
- Anti-air lariat cross cancel (IMPORTANT, more on this below)
- Magic serie hit-confirm while doing footsies
- Magic serie punish from your opponent
- Simply raw tag if your opponent is trying to run away
I read some people are doing point-blank lariat into cross cancel tag… I’m not quite sure if that’s safe! I’ll have to try it out myself.
Tag-in Bread’n’Butter
I’m really in love with the big damage Zangief can do off a tag. Like most people said, it’s s.mp, s.mp, s.mk x s.hk. It’s really satisfying to land.
EX-GH Bread’n’Butter
EX-GH is no longer useful as an invincible reversal. You can still use it to counter fireballs and off any sucessful jump-in combo. That combo is : j.hp, c.lk x EX-GH, s.mp, s.mp, s.mk, s.hk. It’s pretty easy to figure out if you’re in the corner so the alternate combo is pretty useful too (j.hp, c.lk x EX-GH, s.mp, s.mp, s.mk x Punch Lariat).
Anti-Air Lariat switch cancel
I can’t believe people are not stoked about this! Of a sucessful anti-air lariat you can then switch cancel to tag in your character for a free combo. I’m playing Zangief/Ogre right now and my anti-air lariat switch cancel combo is doing 404 damage. And that’s only off 1 meter! I got a 2-bar variation where I can bring Gief back in.
My Zangief/Ogre anti-air BnB’s :
1- Anti-air Lariat (d+PPP) x Switch Cancel (mp+mk), uf+lk x uf+mk, cl.hk x qcb + hp (404 damage, 1 bar)
2- Anti-air Lariat (d+PPP) x Swtich Cancel (mp+mk), uf+lk x uf+mk, cl.hk x dp + lk, Cross Cancel (mp+mk), s.mp, s.mp, s.mk, s.hk (481 damage , 2 bars)
3- Anti-air Lariat (d+PPP) x Switch Cancel (mp+mk), uf+lk x uf+mk, cl.hk x dp + lk, Cross Cancel (mp+mk), s.mp, s.mp, s.mk x Punch Lariat (corner variation, 494 damage , 2 bars)
4- Anti-air Lariat (d+PPP) x Switch Cancel (mp+mk), uf+lk x uf+mk, cl.hk x qcf + PPP (515 damage, 3 bars)
GODLIKE super
Since it’s a 0 frame grab with very good range, for sure we’ll learn how to punish everything that’s punishable in the game. With that crazy range, you can also use that old s.mp scare tactics trick :
- Get your opponent in the corner
- Move up and press s.mp without hitting him to force him to get into the block animation
- Buffer the super and land it.
Gem tactics
- I really like the movement gem. I’m using the one where it activates on counter-hit. With Gief, it’s 100% sure that it will go off during a match.
- I use the life regeneration gem. It seems to heal up a bunch, I like it. You activate it off getting tagged by 3 special moves, which is pretty easy with Gief.
- I use the increased meter gain gem off a teamate’s launcher on both my characters. Did you know that you gain meter off whiffing normals like in Third Strike? It’s happening with all of Gief’s medium and hard normals.
Changes to the lariat
The lariat hitbox from the front seems better than before. I had situations where I did an early lariat and my opponent fell on it without me trading a hit.
Also, it’s still possible defend yourself against cross-ups with the anti-air lariat, but I see what people are saying. From the back, it doesn’t reach as far as it used to be. It still works though!
Closing comments
Zangief is a turtle machine. I love his SFxT incarnation.
EDIT : I actually meant switch cancel, not cross cancel. Cross cancel is the alpha counter move.
I’m starting to think command grabs aren’t as good as I’d thought at the start. The problem with them is just that they result in knockdowns, which let the opponent mix you up with roll/stand/backdash and kinda blow up your pressure. Imo the ideal situation is to deal a ton of damage while keeping the opponent standing and end up in a mixup that, if successful, will result in dealing a ton of damage again while still keeping the opponent standing and ending up with another mixup. I can get the first section of that, but with Hugo/Gief, Gief comes in and his mixups all result in the opponent being knocked down, whether it’s a command grab, combo into ex hand, or chain into launcher. That’s nice, and if I get the right mixup, I’ll kill most characters with a single series of Hugo combo into Gief, Gief mixup into Hugo. But eh, I dunno, I think having a safe high/low character who can keep the opponent grounded well is probably more effective.
There’s a lot of very interesting data. It really should be in its own strategy thread to avoid getting lost amongst chatter. :tup:
Seriously, awesome post.
Anyway, personally I’m not really sure about Zangief, at the moment. I believe he can do well with the right partner but then is he just a dead weight? I’ll wait for the far more skilled players to offer their verdict because the sort of stuff you get away with early online isn’t an indicator. 
^^ Clakey D just won the Level up tournament this weekend with Zangief and Hugo, with killers like Marn and Combofiend, gief is amazing (and hugo seems to be better than I thought, or Clakey is just awesome with him)
I agree, I rarely use zangief’s SPD any more, only when I’ve conditioned them to block with giefs godlike stand lk.
I think Gief’s strengths in this game are really centered on his defense. Lariat is just such a good tool defensively it’s ridiculous, and combined with the high health and things like st. mp and st. lk into magic series he is really hard to get in on. If you run into a matchup against someone with a fireball, the fear of the EXGH is back from SF4 and SSF4 because of the great damage he gets off of it now.
Try playing against gief who just does lariat 500 times when shit drops.
still @ it with my Steve Fox partner… nothing like raw tag punishes for 650-830 … ranging from no meter (besides cross cancel) to team super.
Gatling Gun Grab > Cross Cancel > 3 close fierce > jump forward fierce > close mk/close mp x2 > team super/lariat
I think Gief is good right now. He has some good footsie tools, basically the same as in SF4 except far st mk and cr mk are now really good too. He has high life and some good defensive properties.
But his mixups are actually not that great in the context of this game, which is weird for Gief. Sure, command grab is 180-230 damage, but it can’t be tag canceled to extend damage and results in a knockdown that the opponent can roll away from. A cr lk or splash with Gief gets you to about 400-500 damage. Meanwhile, other characters have high/low, crossup, and frame trap mixups that go for 500-700 damage, some of which don’t knock down and end up in even more mixups. Gief is gonna depend on needing to get in more times than lots of other characters.
So I think he has to be played a little differently in this game. Imo he should be set him up in mixup position using a teammate (like my Hugo/Gief arrangement), played as a footsie character buffering things into the safer green hands into mixups or buffering into launchers instead, or played defensively in matchups against opponents without good safe chip moves. And I’m not sure if those playstyle options are really going to remain solid long term.
This is what I don’t get. It seems like they didn’t properly fit him into the engine. The grabs do poor damage compared to the combos and have such long start-up they can’t punish as much as they should.
Once people really get the execution down, I expect to see a lot more of those combos that do 50% of someone’s life. I don’t see how Zangief fits into that whereas Hugo clearly does.
Timeouts are also a legitimate worry now for Zangief, seeing as how most people tend to be extra careful once they learn Gief can decimate them. I’ve had more than my fair share of timeouts because people play the cat and mouse game. I’m almost tempted to switch mains. Currently, I’m using Gief on point with Vega as support.
Although something zangief has over hugo is that once he gets knocked down it’s not game over and he’s not slow as crap like hugo
im actually winning alot of my matches by time out and im running zangief and hugo…one i get the life lead i just settle back and let them come to me
I understand that concept: Fall back once you get the life lead. But that just kills the fun for me. I like rushing in and playing smart. Footsies are an important part of my game also. Just hate the fact that I sometimes win by timeout, or lose by timeout.
Gief is godtier in this game, guaranteed
well if your playing kazua you better not get hit…[media=youtube]R8aJgB2IJHM[/media]!
Edit: Works with Kazuya’s crouching Fierce punch too. Also, it works midscreen lol