Interest check: USB/PS3/PS2/PS1/Saturn/Dreamcast/Gamecube joystick controller board

[Missing_Person]

The problem is you need at least 9 pins, more if you want auto-detection. RJ45 only has 8, and are not easy to crimp on to salvaged gamepad leads.

Elaborate. I figured it would be easy to do this with just 8 pins, if you just make sure each controller sent/received non-similar signals through different pins and just made the ground and vcc the same pins (1 & 8) for all cables.

PSX uses 7 wires. 360/PS3/xbox/PC uses 4 (you could even use a button select for the USB connection so that you can tell the board which system it’s plugged into). Gamecube uses 3. Dreamcast uses 5 (4 if you don’t need to hook up the sense line in the cable). Saturn uses 8.

Even if you decided to go all out like Toodles’ UPCB and start adding in older system support:

SNES uses 5. Genesis uses 9, but not many people are clamoring to use sticks on the genesis. The only people you’d get for the SNES would be people that played TMNT:TF and KI on there, basically. N64 uses 3 wires. NES (God forbid) uses 5.

This is all pulled from the hex files in the UPCB source. One of the main reasons the UPCB is unaccessible is that to make a cable, you have to solder wire from different pins of the UPCB to the Ground and VCC pins on the DB15 to tie those pins as low and high respectively, then solder in the signal lines. A lot of work for just a cable. The reason the MC Cthulhu has taken precedence over the UPCB is the ease of making cables. You can either have tentacles worth of cables hanging out of the case, each soldered to a different row of the Cthulhu, or you can solder an ethernet cable to the 1st row of the Cthulhu’s pins, feed it into a Neutrik RJ-45 jack, then crimp cables into the corresponding pins needed to get them to the rows they need to be in. The Cthulhu knows what system cable is plugged in by what wires are connected and where.

I won’t claim to be a genius when it comes to this stuff (far from it). Just from my end, I can’t see using a RJ-45 as a cable connector as being an impossibility, so long as you make sure it’s programmed well enough to tell what system is being used when signals are being sent to and received from certain pin combinations.

[mojochan]

(LCD)

Sounds like this would be adding to the cost, unneccessarily. I’d say make it as cheap as possible

It would just be a header on the PCB, you would then add a second PCB for the LCD or LEDs. It would be entirely optional. The LCD would most likely be a full colour one from a Nokia phone, approximate cost 25/$50. The LED controller would be a lot less than that.

So what about maybe creating a small chip/pcb that could piggyback onto the UPCD for DC support?

That’s what I suggested in an earlier post. It’s quite simple since I have already done all the hardware work. Only thing is I don’t have a UPCB. If there is demand I could get one I suppose.

I think it’s important to do some brainstorming and come up with something truly unique so that you’re filling a void rather than just making a small addition to something that’s already available.

Feel free to post your ideas for me to implement

Elaborate. I figured it would be easy to do this with just 8 pins, if you just make sure each controller sent/received non-similar signals through different pins and just made the ground and vcc the same pins (1 & 8) for all cables.

Well, actually I should have said 7 pins as two pins on the 9 pin Playstation connector is not needed. Of course, that would exclude connection to a Neo Geo as that needs about 12 pins IIRC.

I’ll try and set it up so that you can use only 8 pins if you want to, or 15 pins if you want Neo Geo or direct arcade board connection (I own a few PCBs).

The Cthulhu knows what system cable is plugged in by what wires are connected and where.

My system has auto-detection. When it is first powered on, it just waits to see which line is polled by the console. From that it knows what system is connected.

[LuckyDay]

It would just be a header on the PCB, you would then add a second PCB for the LCD or LEDs. It would be entirely optional. The LCD would most likely be a full colour one from a Nokia phone, approximate cost 25/$50. The LED controller would be a lot less than that.

People have suggested LCDs on sticks and projects here before. Personally I think it’s not going to be extremely useful, but maybe as a premium add-on people would like it for the ‘bling’.

I’ve always thought a key logger function (that saves to a small file that could be uploaded to a via USB) would be much more useful as people could check where they are missing combos and motions.

That’s what I suggested in an earlier post. It’s quite simple since I have already done all the hardware work. Only thing is I don’t have a UPCB. If there is demand I could get one I suppose.

You should talk to Toodles and see if it’s something he’d like help with. Post in the UPCB thread if you think you’ve got a good way to help him implement it.

I’ll try and set it up so that you can use only 8 pins if you want to, or 15 pins if you want Neo Geo or direct arcade board connection (I own a few PCBs).

15 pin is the sweet spot. Neo Geo and arcade support are important to a lot of people.

[GosBroDansFan]

As far as brainstorming on how to make this fill a void, if it is sold in a manner where I can easily buy the device already assembled and buy the cables I need to get it working on a few consoles I want to use it on, and the price isn’t prohibitive, that would be filling a void I think.

For instance if the finished device was available with a DE-15 port on it and when ordering one I could get cables that were like DE-15 -> PSX, DE-15 -> USB, and DE-15 -> GameCube I think I would physically HAVE to buy it.

[Missing_Person]

Well, actually I should have said 7 pins as two pins on the 9 pin Playstation connector is not needed. Of course, that would exclude connection to a Neo Geo as that needs about 12 pins IIRC.

I’ll try and set it up so that you can use only 8 pins if you want to, or 15 pins if you want Neo Geo or direct arcade board connection (I own a few PCBs).

I was going to suggest that most people who use Neo Geo support or use their stick for direct connection to cabinets would be skilled enough to run their inputs to a barrier strip, then run two wires from each, one to the PCB, and one to a DB15.

But your suggestion is also doable. Either/or is fine with me, as Neo Geo/JAMMA support isn’t important to me, but I’m sure others would have more opinions on that matter.

[JedahsMinistry]

Would definitely love NG/Jamma/Supergun support, or just making sure that PSX mode is compatible with Laugh’s PSX->JAMMA converters.

[Toodles]

Best of luck.

[animaX]

As far as brainstorming on how to make this fill a void, if it is sold in a manner where I can easily buy the device already assembled and buy the cables I need to get it working on a few consoles I want to use it on, and the price isn’t prohibitive, that would be filling a void I think.

For instance if the finished device was available with a DE-15 port on it and when ordering one I could get cables that were like DE-15 -> PSX, DE-15 -> USB, and DE-15 -> GameCube I think I would physically HAVE to buy it.

+1 for this. The ability to buy pre-made cables would be a huge bonus

[speedsterharry]

Very interesting thread. I hope something tangible will come out of this (a mere extension to the UPCB, if possible, might be the best way to go - for the future customers at least. Less costly, a larger userbase, so the bug reports will remove any problem really quick. Of course, an AVR being the extension and the PIC being the main processor is kinda funny ).

As a side note, some people have laughed at me when told about the encryption of Xbox360 controllers. Does anyone have a link to an article explaining what’s involved in this encryption ?
So far, I’ve only found many people talking about it but little fact.

[GeorgeC]

Most decent Saturn=>DC adaptors have a separate plug-in for the VMU if anybody’s interested in that knowledge…

Frankly, I’d rather have Saturn converter support as I don’t want to destroy any of my small supply of DC controllers. I have far more Saturn stuff!

[mojochan]

People have suggested LCDs on sticks and projects here before. Personally I think it’s not going to be extremely useful, but maybe as a premium add-on people would like it for the ‘bling’.

Take a look at: http://denki.world3.net/retro_v2.html

It’s after the PacMan bit, whole thing is only 3 minutes long but took 5 hours to film! It’s only a black and white LCD, now I am using a colour one.

I’ve always thought a key logger function (that saves to a small file that could be uploaded to a via USB) would be much more useful as people could check where they are missing combos and motions.

Yeah, that’s something I thought of too, but rather than logging to a PC it would show the actions on the LCD. The AVR only has a limited amount of memory for logging, but I could add a SD card based logger module (as an optional extra) fairly easily.

The more I think about it the cooler I think that would be. The actions could be time stamped too, for checking how quickly moves are being executed or matching up to a recorded video.

For instance if the finished device was available with a DE-15 port on it and when ordering one I could get cables that were like DE-15 -> PSX, DE-15 -> USB, and DE-15 -> GameCube I think I would physically HAVE to buy it.

+1 for this. The ability to buy pre-made cables would be a huge bonus

That’s very useful feedback, thanks. I suppose I take basic soldering skills for granted, but it’s a big issue for a lot of people.

Unfortunately making cables is rather time consuming if you don’t have a factor somewhere spewing them out. I’m sure I can find ways to reduce the cost though.

As a side note, some people have laughed at me when told about the encryption of Xbox360 controllers. Does anyone have a link to an article explaining what’s involved in this encryption ?
So far, I’ve only found many people talking about it but little fact.

If I had a 360 I could tell you more. Might have to get one I think, now they are much cheaper.

The main USB stuff is not encrypted, I can tell you that much. Similar to the original XBOX pads, they 360 pads are normal HID gamepads but missing the HID descriptor so the OS needs to have a driver containing the descriptor to work.

From what I can gather it appears that the only encrypted part as such is a verification routine which checks if the pad is genuine when first connected. It is more likely based on some kind of challenge/response operation.

The only way around it will be some kind of exploit, rather than trying to break the encryption which is most likely impossible.

That’s why I’d love to see the inside of a Sniper converter box, as it would probably give some big hints as to how they did it.

Frankly, I’d rather have Saturn converter support as I don’t want to destroy any of my small supply of DC controllers.

Luckily I have been able to source large quantities of Dreamcast and various other console extension leads for another project, so hopefully there should be an ample supply.

[LuckyDay]

snip

• A keylogger function only really helps if you can export it. The most important use of something like that (for me at least) would be to record and log commands during a big match, to see where I’m missing things when there’s pressure. Looking down at the LCD wouldn’t really be an option during the match.

• For the sniper I was thinking they just had a box that basically copied the PS2 commands and sent them over to the wired controller that has to be plugged in, then sent that out to the 360. Doesn’t seem like a very effecient way of doing it, hence the inputs dropping and lag.

• And is that you in the BBC video? Nice work repping the Ikaruga shirt.

[GosBroDansFan]

That’s very useful feedback, thanks. I suppose I take basic soldering skills for granted, but it’s a big issue for a lot of people.

Unfortunately making cables is rather time consuming if you don’t have a factor somewhere spewing them out. I’m sure I can find ways to reduce the cost though.

I think soldering can seem very daunting to a lot of people. For me its more an issue of I would rather pay for a finished product than make my own. I’ve wired up PSX pads to arcade controls and built wires before. I don’t have any work area to do it in or anything but the shittiest tools you can buy to do it with. So what I’ve learned from doing it is that I hate doing it, lol.

I have no problem with other people profiting from my laziness.

[mojochan]

• A keylogger function only really helps if you can export it. The most important use of something like that (for me at least) would be to record and log commands during a big match, to see where I’m missing things when there’s pressure. Looking down at the LCD wouldn’t really be an option during the match.

That’s true. I might do it anyway because it could look cool, but logging is a must as you say.

Having looked at real 360 controllers, I still think harvesting controller chips from them is the best option. They are surface mount and should be fairly easy to work with, relatively speaking. Of course, it means sacrificing an original pad but do does a pad hack, and I could offer no-solder thumb screw terminals on my own PCB. I’ll get one and try it, if it works I’ll see about selling some.

It’s always been more of a hobby thing for me, never about getting rich, but since having arthritis in my hands prevents me from playing games much these days I do game electronics instead, and it would be nice to help people out this way.

I need a 360 I suppose. I’ll pop in to my local games store and see what offers they have.

• And is that you in the BBC video? Nice work repping the Ikaruga shirt.

Yes, it is They said I couldn’t wear anything with corporate logos etc on, but I guess they had never heard of many slightly obscure Japanese shooters… It’s an original promotional item, BTW, very rare so it only gets worn on special occasions!

[GeorgeC]

I think soldering can seem very daunting to a lot of people. For me its more an issue of I would rather pay for a finished product than make my own. I’ve wired up PSX pads to arcade controls and built wires before. I don’t have any work area to do it in or anything but the shittiest tools you can buy to do it with. So what I’ve learned from doing it is that I hate doing it, lol.

I have no problem with other people profiting from my laziness.

Quoted for Truth!

I can desolder and solder T5 PCB’s all day but god help me if I have to solder the “good old” control pads. I tried to do this with 2 old Saturn stick and 1 Mark I Saturn pad PCB but I found out I was all thumbs with solder on those tiny contact points! I ruined one PCB by lifting up electrical trace and the other two I just threw in the towel after messing things up for hours and just getting the boards dirty and myself hot-headed!

Some things we’re just not built to do on our own and that can be hard to acknowledge at times. I’m the kind of person who likes to do personal projects and save some cash and also learn something for myself. Other things I’m generally much smarter at letting other more experienced, honest people do the dirty work on. The cash savings usually balance themselves out that way.

[animaX]

It’s always been more of a hobby thing for me, never about getting rich, but since having arthritis in my hands prevents me from playing games much these days I do game electronics instead, and it would be nice to help people out this way.

Fair play mate. This is what makes this community so good!

[horsedick]

the lcd screen is great, i liek what your doing and it gives us a viable alternative instead of shipping other boards from abroad, im all for this board and congratulate you on your achievements.

i would like to see x360 implemented into your design and i would happily put down a fee for your efforts.

[shrimpnoodles]

xbox 1 support too. make it everything basically.

[DarkOmegaX]

Wii support using the wii remote port instead of the gamecube port would be good to consider too because neither the UPCB or the Cthulhu have it yet.
At least I’d definitely be interested if it is implemented.

[Thirteen]

Whatever you do please make sure that the PS3 support also includes support for PS2 games on PS3. You have no idea how infuriating it is to not be able to use my Madcatz stick to play my PS2 collection. A turbo function would be pretty sweet too so I won’t get carpral tunnel from my Burn Zombie Burn addiction.