Sure it’s not huge and I didn’t want to invalidate your point, just saying it’s important to have a good sound design.
I think it’s good so far in SFV. Wouldn’t hurt to have different hitsparks for counterhits.
One other thing I’d like to mention - When the game was played for the very first time, do you guys remember that Ryu had 2 EX bars and Chun had 3? I know this was just for demo purposes because they didn’t want people knowing about the V Trigger just yet, but I kinda liked that EX bar was unique per character. You could have even have it so characters like Urien could stock multiple supers like in SF3, and to balance it out, their EX moves would cost 2 bars.
Not that I disagree with your point (there are multiple ways to make meter interesting) but that’s not what happened exactly.
That meter bar was used for both ex moves and for v-trigger and you had another bar for the current critical art (a “revenge bar” iirc). It’s not that they were “hiding” v-trigger. Ryu only had 2 stocks, so while he’d get his v-trigger sooner, the tradeoff was that it was lost after being hit (or getting knocked down, can’t remember) whereas Chun got to keep hers for the entire duration (though Ryu got a permanent power up to his fireballs for either the rest of the round or the match, can’t remember exactly).
Once they rearranged the mechanics and bars we ended up with just the v-gauge having different sizes.
Ryu still kept the additional hits on his fireball regardless of whether or not his V-Trigger was deactivated.
I’ve posted this on capcom unity, but I’ll post it here.
Requests based off playing the beta a bunch and the Necalli build a bit.
Fix the button config. Look at this to see why. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE5Izx0hyQ8&t=53m43s
It’s SO CLOSE to perfect, you just need to switch “remove this button” to be something other than pressing the button again. You can see that he wants to just press the buttons in order, and then he has to go try again. Normally not a big deal, but annoying in tournament. There needs to be a way to unset buttons (unlike the SFIV version) but it needs to be hold right like GG or something. I’d say use the touchpad, but madcatz doesn’t have touchpads on their sticks for some reason.
With Necalli mirror matches, both characters look very similar, it’s hard to tell the difference. When both V-Trigger, it’s even worse. Please give Necalli better alternates, and change the way his V-Trigger effect works so his hair is different either by colour chosen, or by p1/p2.
People seemed to find Ryu’s parry in the beta very unintuitive. I personally liked it, but I saw a lot of people confused by when to use it, and how to use it. One suggestion would be to allow him cancel out of it into ex moves earlier than it recovers, but other options would also work.
Crush Counter needs to applied more carefully. If the move is cancelable on normal hit, you need to make sure cancels which would normally combo still combo on Counter Hit, sometimes it can make the special whiff afterwards, and for Chun’s b.hp you can normally link from it, but if you got a counter in the Necalli build you’d get the juggle version, which I couldn’t seem to land anything off?
So long as the the CH combos aren’t worse than the normal combos that’s not an issue, and maybe there are followups I don’t know about, but it was pretty annoying, since it’s one of her better meaty attacks.
Similarly, while Chun’s V-Trigger is awesome, in the beta she lost CH and meaty specific combos in V-Trigger. She only gets +1 on cr.mk from VT, but +2 from Counter Hit, and Counter Hit doesn’t give extra frame advantage in V-Trigger (on the moves which are two hits anyway, because that’s how counter hits work in SF), which means she loses her hit confirms into super or ex legs (she can still combo into super from lk legs, but it’s more complicated and spacing specific). She also got airborne Crush Counter on HK instead of the grounded version, which gives much less followup damage. There’s also meaty combos with b.hp and f.hk which no longer work (because of the two hits), but those are a bit irrelevant.
These don’t necessarily need to be fixed, it’s still worth going into V-Trigger, but again, I found it unintuitive.
I felt the biggest problem with Ryu’s parry was that you couldn’t program the dummy. Without being able to properly test which moves you can parry and punish, I was just using it as an anti-fireball moves and dicked around with it against newbies.
Personally, the things that I hate about Ryu’s parry, are:
-
The parry is done with pressing just two buttons (one, if you map the V-Skill), which leads me to…
-
Unlike some of the characters we’ve seen, Ryu’s V-Skill does not utilize the directional input (like how Necalli controls the range of his ground slam or how Rashid jumps over the opponent, etc.), i.e. V-Skill = normal parry, V-Skill + forward = high parry, V-Skill + backwards = low parry
-
It’s really hard to figure out the timing of WHEN to actually start parrying in the heat of a battle, since the dummy was unprogrammable and you couldn’t practice the preparation for parrying wakeup attacks or jump-ins etc)
-
It does NOT require you strict timing of button presses while parrying multihit attacks/projectiles. You can just mash the V-Skill like crazy and it will still work, quite a disappointment for me (especially compared to 3rd strike)
Hopefully Capcom is gonna fix all of these
High low would be terrible.
It’s already a v-skill which is reactive and very punishable that does not give him much if any v-meter.
There’s nothing wrong with the timing, not sure what you mean by that. I think you’re just describing misgauging the range/speed of an opponents attacks which is completely expected with so little time to play so far.
Parry rhythm like in 3S is unnecessary since the entire decision to parry is much more a gamble than in 3S where your parries aren’t actually visible to the opponent and unless they connect with something.
He can cancel out of it into other stuff, or if he can’t, it certainly feels that way with specials at least.
People are confused by it because using it well is much more challenging than eating a donut or catching a hadouken.
It’s not 3S parry but you still have to have a similar mindset when using it and the new risk for whiffing it adds an extra element that 3S parry didn’t have. In a game that normally doesn’t have parries they’re not going to let you get low forward or s.mp super for parrying a jab. Just not realistic
Yeah, I mean, part of the issue is that it’s not really a parry. In practice it works more like an S-Groove dodge with hitstop but some recovery than a parry.
Which is actually a really useful tool, but it looks like a parry and everybody talks about it like it’s a parry, and then I see people getting confused/frustrated when it doesn’t really walk like a parry.
I didn’t watch the video, but I don’t see how you punishing someone for standing up to tech proves your point. There are several reasons why someone would want to stand tech rather than crouch tech. But regardless of that, as I said before crouch teching was not new and doing it late was not new either. It’s true that the majority of people playing SF4 did not know about it since they were all new, but anyone playing competitively before then new about all of this.
The point was that crouchteching is what makes teching good in streetfighter. Anyways since you’ve seen fit to ignore the video I can then ignore any of your arguments.
So having said that. There is no CT in SG and people eat throws in that game all day long… Hmm wonder why…
Also, I will say that though CT is obviously the biggest culprit to throws being trash in sf4, it isn’t the ONLY reason.
Other reasons are the long break window and the fact that CT occurs on 2 light attacks instead of 2 heavys, plus low throw range bla bla… But CT is by far the biggest factor to them being not great. SG also has long ass 14 frame break window and and 2 button light attack throws. Neither is a consideration much though since CT gets you thrown in SG because you can’t block low and tech at the same time.
This is interesting, and something I have spent a TON of time thinking about. The balance between CA and EX in this game. I came to the conclusion that my ideal would be highly damaging supers, and more utilitarian, flashy EX’s. I think every EX version of a move should serve not one, but a few possible, distinct options. I’ll give you an example I devised:
Ryu’s EX Tatsu:
Used within a combo, this should do LESS damage than a regular tatsu. However, you will get options. The new EX tatsu will launch the opponent on the last hit straight into the sky, allowing for several different followups. Want the damage, buffing it past regular tatsu? Follow up with jump mp cancelled into tatsu, or whatever other followups you might want. Going this route, you can introduce “swaggier”, more complicated links. Want the higher damage? You need to hit the links. Want to just get that flat, easier, guaranteed damage? Cancel into super or regular tatsu.
With this option we also get more mixup options, and trickier stuff for the player. You can use that launch for an air reset, a dash under, or even just a sweep into meaty or something. Giving EX options keeps the games overall feel much more SF, while still introducing some additional layers of not only combo choice, but personalization. It will be a way for players to even further differentiate themselves from anyone else who plays their character.
You can do so much with EX, Birdie’s ex chain wall bounce? Follow up with cr.hp target combo, or drop a banana during the bounce. A more fleshed out EX might also be where you might wanna sprinkle in a SUPER limited amount of hard knockdown. Maybe EX hado produces one. Accompany that HKD with an animation of the opponent twinging from electric shocks. Just a thought.
People should stop posting in this thread and start bumping the Unity thread instead.
Good God! Unity is full of dopes!
Yeah Unity is almost as bad for posting as the Facebook SFV forum. Too much casual fighting gamer fluff.
It is Capcom’s website though so it’s good to get out there regardless.
Seems oddly quiet too. There’re so many posts here I can’t keep up reading them. The SRK thread on unity has like three posts (one of them mine) and is quietly sinking off the front page.
I’d say what makes teching good in SFIV is that you can tech throws. Older Street Fighters you couldn’t tech for zero damage. You could only “soften” for less damage and this against instant start-up throws with like twice as much range and way better tick set ups.
3S.
Because no one there can understand that stuff.