I'm really liking this game, but I'm getting a little worried

Classic Fighting Games Skullgirls
21

Only combo I have a problem with is Fortune nomnom loops, it builds 3 meters and really sets you up for TOD’s with the right team order. That’s the only problem I’ve seen so far but then again, fortune without that nomnom loop wouldn’t be worth much.

Hell, my team with decent synergy can TOD in a 3v3 match quite easily. So people losing a character early on and fighting their way back with 2 is probably something you’ll see a lot.

But for now I’m just enjoying the game and not worrying about shit like that. It’s really fun when you come across a new tactic and you have to break it down and learn to beat it.

22

Has no one seen Hellfromabove’s (sorry if I got the name wrong) Double reset? Resets are going to be very pertinent in this game. ToD combos will be great for solo teams, such as Parasoul, Ms. Fortune, and Valentine.

But the game might evolve. I mean, I’ve been rolling like follows:
Assist Character (currently Double) in front, to scope out the opponent. If I die, I lost some pressure options but I’m not totally exposed. If I get the chance, I DHC out to my second who is:
My point character, Filia. I know I have her second, but once I figure out my opponent’s gameplan then I’ll let her out. She relies on Parasoul’s invincible Napalm Pillar assist to defend herself, and Double’s HB assist for pressure (and you can do the assist into raw super followed by 3 heavys for high damage). When she gets killed, I go into my
Secondary point. Someone like Parasoul who relies less on assists, but could definitely use them. Parasoul is great here due to her safe pressure options.

Edit: Point is, the game might evolve. Everyone’s trying completely different things and people are applying different strategies to get in. Two weeks into a game isn’t enough time to judge how it’s going to end up.

23

the resets in this game are brutal because of the non tech in the air not to mention that you can restand combo someone and just forgo the whole air thing and reset them while they’re on the ground in a standing position.

Eventually, the resets in this game are going to be brutal mvc2 level. Wreck as hard as you can for as many hits, ridiculous reset, repeat. That will not change, its there forever because of the core system mechanics. You’d have to remove a lot and add to make sure resets couldn’t wreck.

its only a problem if you think it is. Many mvc2 players accepted that fact that your shit would get popped. Step your D up not to mention this game isn’t as fast as mvc2 so its definitely easier to block.

you’re talking about a fighting game made for people who play fighters. Of course all the impossible shit is going to be in this game which I prefer. Beats the fuck out of activating XF3 and beating a whole team because you got your ass kicked.

24

…

hahahahahahahahaha

oh wait. you’re serious?

well then

let me laugh even harder.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Stop watching youtube combo videos all day long. If you dont want to stop watching youtube, watch player matches lol. The only long combos that happen on a regular basis with player matches are from Parasoul and Painwheel, and they’re not even that long.

100% combos are anything but practical. And 100 hit combos arent hard when you have characters like Valentine whos moveset consists of so many multihit combos.

Also, rather than looking at it as the opponent getting more meter than the attacker, why not look at it like it actually is. Meter Scaling! the longer your combos, the more your meter gain scales! Encourages resets, discourages long combos, and it’s not a comeback mechanic either! Because if you consider something like that a comeback mechanic, then the opponent getting meter in general for getting hit, is a comeback mechanic.

25

I just got hit by a few 100%s, solo vs duo, but ouch ouch ouch.

26

Yeah, I’ve found that if I try to go in on a solo I get blown up. You really have to play these matches smart, 2v1 and 3v1 is truly a test of skill.

27

Honestly combos in this game are very easy. Everyone knows “don’t start a chain the same way, and you will be ok!” If this game keeps evolving every attack will lead into a 80+ hit combo. And just so everyone knows, a 100% combo is way better then a reset in-between your combo. Its not like this game is played in a set of matches so meter gain does not matter. (unless it is 1v1)

EDIT* But don’t get to worried because I have never seen a 100% damage combo from full health at 100% damage unless it has a early level 3. That might change though because the game is so new.

28

Did you read the thread?

The whole point of getting more meter for getting hit in a combo is what’s supposed to limit the use of training mode combos all day in the long run.

Uhhhhhhhhhhh couple of things

1)Meter resets in 1v1, so it doesn’t matter anyways

2)In non-1v1 matches you still have all that meter you just got on your next character. Meter gain matters A LOT.

29

That’s what I was saying (But some ignorant fanboys in this thread were closing there eyes for serious complains).

  1. If even the ordinary player is capable of pulling of long combos, it is a even easier thing for a progamer.
  2. This is only week 3, so the combos will definately tend to become longer and more optimated.
  3. If a single character can beat one character of a two player team with like 1 (or 1 combo and like 2 hits) (or whatever, you get the idea), then the character left will has no assists left, so the sense of playing a two char team is completely eliminated. By losing on char with one combo, you have 1 char left with half of the power as the enemy char.
  4. It’s boring as hell to be caught in a long combo. I want to play, not to watch. And even if I do the combos, it’s not that much fun to act out a automated combo with like 20 secs ? I want to play and react to my opponent, maybe with footsies, maybe just punish unsafe move. But I always want to be in a kind of “flow”.
30

long combos dont kill the spacing game, since you put more emphasis on not getting caught on a situation of being comboed to dead
this is how it works on many games with long combos, footsies are not the end of the spacing game, they are just a little part of it, specially on games with better movement options
its obvious that the gameplan between 2vs 1 or 3 vs 1 would be different, where the teams with large numbers would play more oriented to a combination of spacing and rushdown depending on the team composition

usually people who complaint about long combos killing other aspects of the game, dont uderstand how the other aspects of the game work, and usually are unable to recognize them

edit

btw im not saying that they are or arent a problem, just pointing the futility of complaining of something at this stage of the game where we dont know how those “long combos” can affect the high level play, the gameplay can and would evolve; besides, the game was designed to allow big combos, so you cant complaint about something that was part of the vision of the game, mike has stated that he is ok with them as long as they arent easy to do

as harsh as it sounds, if the game doesnt carter to your taste, there are other options

31

First it’s parries, then it’s long combos, what’s next…going back to throws are cheep?

I’m done.

32

Just my two cents. This game will never be as fast as Marvel 3 (which is a good thing), but I certainly wasn’t expected to see character kill combos on week 1 or week 2. I remember Mike Z saying in the question and answer thread a few months ago that aside from 1 vs 3 ratio, ToD combos don’t seem viable which doesn’t seem to be the case (and once again, it hasn’t even been a month yet). Unless some major patching happens, I see CKC combos being the future of standard competitive play. The meter gain your opponent gets isn’t enough of a deterrent to prevent the guaranteed elimination of a character from one or two openings. I think to prevent CKCs in the long run we will see more teams of two and less of three but in the long run it won’t matter. I sort of hope I’m wrong, character kill combos can be so frustrating to play against, especially when they are as long as the ones in Skulgirls.

33

If someone is getting blown up by Solo Team ToDs simply because it’s a Solo Team, dont you think that the losing player is smart enough to drop the weakest link(s) from the team to counter their opponent?

Does no one think that? That’s one of the aspects I love about the Ratio system. If you’re 3rd or 2nd character is getting blown up, or you’re just getting blown up in general, you can drop characters.

In doing so, Solo ToDs become less likely, each hit you land matters more, and if you had a character that did well own her own, that character will be a lot more potent.

And if people drop characters for specific opponents/match ups, combos get shorter as well, due to 1/2 less assists, 1/2 less characters to DHC to, and less life to heal (in a sense).

34

Nobody here is concerned about comboing in general, like what you described in the beginning of your post. It’s about the length and benefits of them. Does a game fundamentally change if the combos take 2 seconds vs taking 4 hours (let’s assume time isn’t a factor)? No, it doesn’t, because your tools to land hits are all still in tact and the same. But what I’m saying is that it changes the pace of it. Long combos, just by pure math, take up more potential time you have to play the game (whether it be blocking rushdown, moving around, playing assists, etc). I don’t mind longer combos in a game with mechanics to make up for it. As in, I’m fine with the fact that Darkstalkers has longer combos than SF2, because they are trying to do different things. However, there is a threshold for that.

Basically, tl;dr main point, is when doing a long combo is the best thing to do in your situation is when I start to dislike it

I know people dealt with harder stuff back in MvC2. I’m not talking about that though. That actually makes MvC2 really fun. Also, I don’t mind the craziness in MvC2 that much because they are resets, not long combos, and the resets were generally a result of you picking the wrong side to block, not ‘oh my combo ended or dropped, I’ll just go for a grab and do the same thing’. You actually had to turn it around and not have a grab be your safety.

35

just wanting to point, that the pace of a game is not determinated by how long or short the combos are
sf4 is a game with slow pace, and has very tiny combos
the pace comes from the amount of time that passes between neutral game to close game, and if we want to be nipticky, how much bigger is one over another, mv3 has long combos and yet its pace is not slow

as i said, there are options, dont get frustrated because the game is not your cup of tea
also, if you get caugt in the combo, you didnt played the game well, if you are getting caught by long combos every time, you need to work on your neutral game and defensive game more, just saying

36

I didn’t make a mention of what the pacing of SG was or that pacing was determined by that. I simply said disrupts. And I’d agree with that on MvC3, the combos really disrupt the pace of the game. Not saying MvC3 is a slow paced game, just the combos in it disrupt it.

I also don’t think your “just play it better” things really help in this kind of discussion. I/People here are just talking about what they like and dislike. Would I be allowed to voice a concern if I was #1 on the leaderboards? Isn’t it possible to have problems with an aspect of something you like? It’d be one thing if I called this game too easy or trash for the sole reason of me getting hit, but that’s not what I’m doing, at all. It’s okay to realize when something in there isn’t part of the part of the game you like. I’m sure you’d understand that someone with a 1 frame 80% hit anywhere safe super is something of a concern and not a “just play the game better” thing.

37

vampire savior is a great middle ground for marvel\sf players. Most combos aren’t over 10 hits and the pacing is very fast but the game doesn’t have all the tools this game has. Still, you can get locked into loops where if you can’t push block, you’re stuck watching back to back offense. So while you’re not watching someone combo your shit to death, your watching someone open up your ass for free. BBH can just keep you block stun practically forever against some characters so while you’re not watching combos, your watching that bitch dance on your face.

Watching is STILL watching whether its watching combos, or watching high level offense repeatedly because of short combos. I should know, I blasted sooo many players on GGPO in VS with bee who’s biggest combo was 6 hits with normals, most of the time it was 3-4 for her bnb.

choose your poison basically. Each system has it flaws. One system allows most players the ability to loop offense back to back. On GGPO, we called sasquatch mashquatch because of his easy ass death cycle that took basic chain cancelling and oki timing. Not much execution dexterity there to win the game with small combos. Even games with small combos have problems still but I know what you’re saying.

I prefer the execution dexterity this game provides say over sasquatch from vampire savior whom anyone can play and do incredibly well and with a little practice and same goes for bee

38

i udenrstand why are you trying to get at, not everyone like long combos, and some feel that they “disrupt” the pace of the game
the thing here is, that you need to understand, that other people actually enjoy games were there are long combos, and feel that they dont take anything from the game
sg, as it is, is a game were his game designer likes combos, he specifically designed the game in order to allow long combos, yes he designed it were resets would be an important part of the game too, but long combos are still a possibility due the way that the combo system is implemented, so from the very beginning the game was designed with people with a similar taste in mind

my “tip” of playing better is more in the lines that if you like the game, but dont like getting caught on long combos, you need to develope strtegies to avoid being in a situation were you can get caught, using your assist in a defensive way that dont let the opponent start a optimizated combo, or a better spacing game, there are ways to avoid big combos, i know it because i come from games where there are TOD combos that can take 99 damn seconds (HNK)

ultimately, if after playing the game, and seeing how it evolves, you have the option to quit it if you dont like it, complaining about it wouldnt help, specially if you complains are toward turning the game into something that is not mean to be

from the very inception of the game, long combos are envisioned as a possibility, no matter how much you dislike it, the game is designed to allow them

its like if i start complaining that sf4 doesnt allow me to have strong mixup, air mobility or long ass combos, or that its way to turtle friendly, the game is not designed to fit my taste, so complaining wouldnt lead to anything, instead i have the option to learn it and enjoy it for what it is or simply walk away and play other options that fit the criteria of what i like

39

shoultz, what game or combination of games does SG feel like to you?

40

mvc2+gg\bb = skullgirls

I find myself constantly using tricks from those games to play basic in this game. Not to mention that Mike Z actually really liked both of those games.

I would of made the game a bit different, like bringing back 8 way air dashes and shit but its still pretty good as is. For a 15$ game, I like it better than the whole sf4 series and sfxt. Quality over quantity