Spidey/Wesker/(Doom, IM, Task, Dante-Y(?),Mags)
Suddenly not only do you have ace anti phoenix tech, but you’re also running the flat out second best team in the entire game otherwise.
I imagine Viper begins taking a toll on the players after playing in long stretches like that.
well, alright. idk how you can say viper is stable if the players aren’t, as there is then still no proof that viper is stable.
and i don’t understand how you can think spidey/wesker/x and say it’s the second best team in the game.
stream monsters will always be garbage and their opinions dont matter
Cosmic_Castaway is 100% correct. I choked badly during top 8 and my matches when not on stage in front of tons of people with those players all went exceptionally better. Viper’s only as stable as her player’s execution and decision making but if they have that then most matches are pretty free for her.
What’s any less stable about Viper than any other character in this game? There’s no character I’ve seen that I haven’t seen blown up hard.
People hate on people for doing things they don’t like. This always happens. Is it stupid? Incredibly. But it will never stop. But the matter is no one needs to do anything to justify themselves in the eyes of anyone else. Picking Captain America because you want to be the low tier hero is no different than picking Phoenix to increase your chances of winning. Besides it’s not like Phoenix can’t be lamed out herself. Look what happened to Champs Phoenix at Devastation.
I understand that I’m talking to one of the top Viper mains in the US right now, so I’d like to learn stuff from this, but here is how I understand it:
Viper has some extreme strengths. She’s got great control over the screen if your seismos are on point, and I expect that keeping up the seismo pressure is at least somewhat execution heavy. I personally think that her seismo’s being able to control the opponent’s assists is her strongest point, but as i said, the execution is what I consider to make her an unstable character.
With meter, she is super scary and has a ton of things she can open up people with. On the other hand, it’s very easy to blow meter with viper without actually confirming a hit that would let her gain more meter back, maybe it’s not totally hard, but it is an additional issue that a Viper player has to worry about. Small things add up. If she does get some of her common confirms she does well just like any other character, but I feel like she needs that great execution and (slightly) situational meter in order to be played more effectively than Wolv, Wesker, Mag, She Hulk, and Dante.
Those five characters are just less bound by execution and meter, and can create almost as effective setups that Viper can.
I also admit that saying “a character is/is not consistent” is probably a bad way of expressing what I mean. obviously the character can’t do anything by itself.
it’s just that Viper hasn’t exactly “broke out” yet, probably due to lack of players and such, but also I think because she isn’t very easy to use and succeed with.
i don’t even know what i’m arguing any more by the way. saying the players aren’t consistent just means to me that there are certain attributes of the character that can cause inconsistency. which is what i’m trying to say, just with way too many words.
If I’m a top Viper main that’s a bad sign. D:
Execution is an issue, but I honestly feel that it’s a very temporary solution to the very permanent problem of her being an OP biznatch. Most of her stuff is actually that hard, it’s just weird and different from the normal, people used to think tri-jumping at a certain speed wouldn’t really be possible, if you watch a late in the life cycle of Marvel 2 match it will be proved dramatically incorrect. I think honestly if Viper was given a year the vast majority of her important execution things could be brought to 99% for sure.
As for meter/other good characters, I’d rather have good options to use meter and inefficiently use it some time than 0 good options and have tons of meter. She is given options characters should never have as long as she has meter. For the other characters you mentioned I see even the best Dantes in the world drop the easy as frick input of volcano beehive so execution is an issue for all of them. As long as the execution barrier isn’t to the point where doing something consistently won’t be possible for normal people then that shouldn’t influence how good a character is; a strong character with a hard learning curve is still a strong character.
MarlinPie’s won a major with Viper against the person who got second at Devestation, this wasn’t Viper being broken though it was definitely a good sign that at worst she can hang with the top level if not being equivalent to or better than all of them.
Okay, I agree. I still think controlling the seismo is an issue and that is one of her biggest strengths and also one of the things that is not common.
and yeah, Dante may have some problematic execution things, but those are usually combo-oriented. Viper has the seismos, and jcing the seismo maybe easy, but rapid seismos consistently are somewhat difficult, and I haven’t seen seismo focus dashing being implemented in videos yet so idk how that would affect things. But it’s still a DP motion/TK DP motion at a somewhat fast speed with a small window and with the ability to sometimes mess up and get a thunder knuckle (which isn’t awful outside of the H version). Other things to combat assists she has would be the focus/ex seismo
BUT i’m just comparing the difficulty of that to what the other characters have
wolv: dive kick, berserker slash, and large range on normals
wesk: gun, large range on normals, teleports
mag: disruptor, airdash, excellent dash, effective L moves, jH, cr H
she hulk: excellent dash, slide. pretty useful jump arc
dante: hammer, range on normals, teleport, projectiles that can be canceled into a powerup super
outside of maybe the consistency on hammer, most of the these tools aren’t difficult execution-wise at all. Viper players really have to work to use their tools. Sure it might be unlocked in due time, but she’s just conducive to inconsistency at the moment.
However her tools are just too strong regardless of current consistency. Despite many considering her to be a rush down character I think of her much more similarly to SSFII:T Dhalsim. Once her knowledge base is right as soon as she makes one correct read it’s up to her to make a mistake as opposed to the opponent getting to do something right though to an even greater extreme. Like Super Turbo Dhalsim if she uses tools such as his anti airs or her seismos incorrectly for awhile although good the character can be competed against, otherwise it just becomes an obnoxious single player game.
Out of curiosity, is there a hitconfirm off of full screen H seismo? Something like dash cancel ex seismo or sj h burn kick ex burn kick?
I also think she is good, but I am sad just because she hasn’t won or broken out and obviously the new game is coming out that will further shift focus away from her. If she hasn’t broken out yet though, then I think that means she isn’t consistent right now, that’s just all I think.
And I still can’t believe someone said a spiderman team is the second best in the game.
New game will be more in Viper’s favor imo.
Also yes she can hit confirm off of 3/4 screen H seismo either with EX Viper ball, or assists.
She won that large Canadian event with Combofiend and MarlinPie. 
In Ultimate they were stupid enough to not nerf her. Her, Zero, and Doom, and Dorm were all characters who had no business receiving minimal nerfs.
I don’t think Doom got one nerf unless they nerfed his HSD a bit which I kinda doubt also. The only nerf Doom will have is a nerf to his XF2/3 which is happening with everyone any way. That’s why I like using mid tier characters cuz I know X-23 being under the radar got nothing but slight buffs also. Dante being nerfed is no problem because he still has everything he needs to win matches.
Mid tier like Chris gettin his 214C attack effected by hit stun scaling between the first and second hits preventing him from doing his old default combo into level 3? >.>
I don’t trust Capcom with any character at this point as far as balance is concerned, I trust them to make any character fun however and that’s the most important part.
by shifting focus away from her, I didn’t mean that she would be getting nerfs, I meant that new characters would mean that Viper’s potential would be even slower to find. I agree the buffs for some characters were not called for, but I think they wanted some characters to change just to try to be exciting. Which would make more sense if buffs were given to unexplored characters like Hsien Ko, Shuma, maybe Jill, Chun, etc etc etc.
One other thing is that Viper is not a very straightforward character.
Getting back to the Phoenix topic, Phoenix is a very straightforward character.
Straightforward characters seem to be developed first.
cool
To be fair the Marlinpie vs Combofiend match was always reduced to Spencer vs Ammy and that is like one of the worst matchups for Spencer, it completely killed off Combofiend’s Dark Spencer powers. I am not convinced that Marlinpie would have done that well against J Wong/PR Rog/Viscant, or even the better East Coast players like Noel Brown or Chris G.
Marlin has godlike offense is the thing, I don’t even trust Justin to consistently block Marlin’s mix ups, however I don’t trust Marlin to consistently block anyone’s mix ups.
Viper is better than 80 percent of the other cast and that’s ultimately what counts. For someone who doesn’t really pick the highest tier characters a lot of the time Viper would be plenty good enough for me. Player skill can take care of the rest.
Marlin Pie is the embodiment of “the best defense is a strong offense”. He played Eddie in GGXX, he had to do that lol.