3887

@Volt

Sorry to add on but.

I don’t think you realize how bad Tager was. He was mostly non functional tools through CS2 at least.

2 Likes
3888

While that is true, comparing the Arcsys Shuffle to Capcom taking Ryu from Top 5 to Bottom 2 for 2 patches is a bit too much.

Even the lynching BBCT Nu got landed her Lambda around mid-tier in CS1, or so I’m told.

As for Tager, it was less “Tager’s tools were cheeks” (They were. Viable ain’t good.) and more “We can royally fuck up Tager because the combos we can get on his ass are ridiculous.”

Not saying that Tager was good, hell, he was bottom tier in a lot of games, but he wasn’t as far as say, SFV 2.0 Ryu to literally everyone.

Unless he actually was in CS1 and CS2 and I just never knew about it. Could’ve happened. I only found out about Dustloop around BBCSEX.

Haku is a better example of rags to riches, but I wanted someone that actually has the big body = low tier stigma.

3889

Nah, no need to be sorry, we’re having a polite discussion and I am known for spitting bad takes from time to time. I can legit have fucked up. We cool.

3890

Rachel went from #1 to dead last in one patch.

Also, you are overselling Tager a lot. He literally had one thing early on, spark bolt, and there was a big glowing meter that let the opponent know it was ready… and you only got one a match… and you didn’t get it until about 20 seconds in.

3891

I want SFV to be a more thought out game. It’s very boring and there isn’t much room for playing differently outside of how the top tiers play. That’s probably the easiest way I can explain it.

2 Likes
3892

So that’s why that Blazen! comic clowned on her.

He had a command grab that dealt Samsho-tier damage, Voltic Charge (Not great, but it helped against projectiles because of the threat of earlier Spark Bolt) and Sledge as a very poor man’s Green Hand.

Like I said, he was bad, but not entirely unviable.
Look no further than the Mike Z vids. Did he have to outplay his opponent hard? Yes, of course, Tager was freaking bottom tier! Was it a 9-1 MU? I don’t think so.

My point was never that Tager was good. Tager was barely functional, despite being a bottom tier.

3893

He was in fact entirely unviable, even MikeZ said as much (and he was far from a top tier Tager player).

In CT he had exactly one even matchup, and even that was debatable. Everything else was losing included multiple 8-2’s and one 9-1.

Edit: people would also argue that there were two 9-1’s though I don’t personally agree.

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3894

I don’t really disagree, but that’s just the system, there aren’t many things the game allows that work. The top tier characters hit on most of those things, and I think variety within the top tier is decent, as the 6 good’uns Actually have somewhat varied game plans.

My point was, I just don’t think it’s a balance issue, as in, it’s not something that can be solved by needing or buffing various characters, not o it’s own at least.

1 Like
3895

Yikes. Ok. You win that one.

Thought the worst were 7-3’s,(Specifically vs Arakune, Rachel and Nu.) with the rest being mostly 6-4’s.

3896

Rachel is 8-2, she’s the one some will argue is actually 9-1.

Carl is the other 9-1.

Arakune is also probably 8-2.

Here is an image of a very early CT matchup chart (emphasis on early). You can see in the totals just how much worse Tager was than even the second worst character.

image

Tager was actually much better in the CS1 games but still very bottom tier.

1 Like
3897

Damn I never realized Tao was like low mid in CT. :thinking:

I was a fuckin’ beast apparently.

1 Like
3898

Lots of people didn’t k ow how to fight her. Arakune was the big thing holding her back.

Also, that chart was very early, so don’t over rely on it’s values. I was just illustrating a point.

Also, Jin and Carl are the mid tiers… :slight_smile:

3899

Hazama was Top Tier in CPEX together with Nu and Jin and since then he’s like Mid-High.
Tager is Tager, still, hes Low Tier, but he’s Tager.

1 Like
3900

Just kinda lines with how I felt about her.

Everything is winnable cept Arakune. Rachel, Carl are hard.

Surprisingly Nu wasn’t that bad for me.

3901

By the end of CT most thought Tao was even with Nu.

It would be interesting to take Tao back to CT. A whole bunch about that character was discovered in CS1, long after CT was dead.

Also, did you play on 360? When you said you played Tao my braining is thinking we butted heads a bunch in ranked.

3902

Tao was kind of a pain in the ass back then. Had to pick Ragna a lot of times against her.

Got a little better overtime, but then again, it was a bunch of low-level matches were neither player really knew what they were doing.

3903

I did play on 360. I wouldn’t be surprised if we did. I really liked Tao.

3904

The trick with Ragna vs Tao was to count her jumps. If she used all her drive jumps she couldn’t block.

Also, Ragna had a DP. He was even vs Tao in CT I think… but maybe not as a lot of Tao stuff was learned in CS1.

1 Like
3905

I had the top 3 XBL Taos as sparring partners so I had good practice (Xdest taught me a bunch about the character).

3906

Yep. Just count jumps and D Inferno the drives on reaction.

The special button was truly a blessing.