If Daigo mained Akuma would he be the best player in the world once again?

Maybe you are too dense to understand what kind of corner you back yourself into with this nonsense logic.

Your best players list is filled with guys who haven’t performed well at Evo and in most cases losing to a non Japanese player. If Evo wasn’t the hardest then your list of guys should perform better. Since your list of players do not perform as well as they should then they probably are not as good as you claim or Evo is the hardest tourney. Either way they failed where Infiltration succeeded.

Eita, Tokido and Uryo were there. Without full logs on the tourney it’s impossible to say who else but most likely every good player made it.

I just showed why it is irrelevant.

Done.

I guess that explains why your list of betters keep winning Evo…oh wait they don’t.

Complete and utter nonsense. Infiltrations dominance of Daigo should make this obvious.

Why not? There are a ton of vids of him to watch and record his tendancies.

No, there “performance” shows that there is just a higher ratio on non Japanese players. Every Japanese and non Japanese players who makes top 16 will have statistically defeated a similar pool of opponents. The Japanese players aren’t significantly better than their non Japanese counterparts. (re: tournament level players)

ROFL

You’re an idiot.

Except it’s not. He keeps winning, more than any other player before him, that includes Japanese players and he is beating the best while he is doing it.

When did Dieminion say this? Link please.

Anyone know why Infiltration is not in this Topanga thing? Also where are people getting the misconception that Infiltration is being hated most people I’ve seen praise him.

I think Filipino Champ put it best when even he admitted that no one has dominated Street Fighter IV like Infiltration is doing currently. Daigo was at his strongest point with the game in 2010 and even his wins there were not overwhelming as they are now with Infiltration.

I don’t have the link but I can corroborate that statement however the way Emil phrased it is a bit disingenuous. I remember distinctly that Dieminion was specifically talking about the average japanese player being better than the average american and how there are a lot of killers over in Japan. He also specifically talked about how the US would be the same if the scene was less spread out and the US had internet like Japan. He also discussed that he thinks that our top are as good as their top but that the overall competition is stronger in japan. Basically he thought that US has a handful of top players just as good as the top japanese but that there were more top japanese players overall and that the average scene has stronger players than the average US scene.

IMO I think he is right. I think that there is about 6 - 10 absolutely killer US players that are on par with any top japanese player or almost on par with them. However there are like 20+ top japanese players of strength to the best in the US, with only 5-10 of them ever leaving Japan to compete.

Also SBO is a terrible test of skill as it’s single elimination. It doesn’t give players a real chance to adapt, how often have we seen players like Fuudo or Latif or Justin Wong or Ryan Hart or any number of amazing players lose in the first or second match of a tournament and then make it all the way back to grand finals in losers bracket? Frankly if it wasn’t for TIME constraints I’d say that all tournaments should be 3 out of 5 double elimination until grand finals then you do a first to 6 with a required 2 match gap like Topanga league does with all their matches. However this is simply not feasible in a real life setting due to time and 2 out of 3 with grand finals being 3 out of 5 is probably the best balance you can get for showing off player skill and minimizing luck and gambles while still being able to run a smooth tournament in a relatively timely fashion.

Japan’s best players are roughly about the same as the best US players (I’m talking about the very top here). HOWEVER, Japan’s average player is much higher skilled than the US average player, this is what Dieminion means, Latif also said the same thing.

Topanga league is partially online (not this time though). Do you want to hold a tournament with participants that are over 5000 miles away from each other? Do you know how bad lag already is when you’re in Texas and you play someone in the same country?

The distance between Beijing, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan is all less than 1500 miles

Edit: Beaten by Eternal

Edit: the tournament this time around was held for Asia only and it is offline instead of Topanga League Japan (which is partially online). Perhaps next time they will do a Topanga League featuring players world wide

Topanga League has some of the best Japanese Players
All of these have attended American Tournaments
And shown that they aren’t far better than the Top American Players
… This obviously means that all of Japan is filled with people who would beat PRRog/JWong/Dieminion/etc easily?!?

Where are your magic top level players? Why are they losing in the japanese tournaments to players who don’t win american tournaments?

Let me walk your laughable path:
Eita at SS2012 won over people like Banbaban, Amiyu, KOK, Michael Tan, etc
Eita at EVO2012 didn’t manage to make it out of pools and lost to Afrocole
This obviously means that an average American Player is better than the japanese Topcrop
Duh?

Lol??? You’re going to tell me that Momochi, Daigo, Bonchan, Kazunoko, Fuudo, etc are on the same level as America’s top (which I"m guessing is Wong, Dieminion, Latif, PR Rog?). If you actually think this, the world you live in is completely detached from reality.

Not even going to reply to Vulpes’ laughable argument.

As for SBO…winning it is a big deal, but losing it is not so much a big deal. The highest placings at SBO mean something, but the lower you go, the less meaningful that placing is. A last place at SBO doesn’t tell you much about your skill level, unless you consistently come out last place (which US happens to do).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Q65NYcGN8U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2Kn3vG7OKY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTbL6DZp4sk
Xian won 3-1 against ChrisG and 7-0 against Bonchan
etc

Completely detached from reality

Heya, there seems to be some sort of misconception regarding Infiltration’s approach to SF. I’ve been lurking these boards for a while but coming from someone who has played against him in Korea I’d like to set the record straight on a number of misconceptions here.

First off, regarding Infil’s iphone notes. He doesn’t put down “player research”. There’s a lot of characters in SF4, there’s many setups that works differently for different characters. He basically makes a summary of what works best vs X character in terms of vortex setups, key frame data advantage vs X character’s bread and butter, and w/e misc ambiguous setups he can use on a specific character. His notes are designed as a quick Cliff note summary to remind him of what works best vs X character, NOT about what Daigo tends to do after he whiffs a sweep or what JWong does after having lunch. His research is character centric, his phone is a specialized wikipedia for SF4. Having said that, he has played in quite a number of tournaments over the years. So yes, he will remember the tendencies of the usual suspects he meets in the top8 etc… To suggest however that he downloads specific players and will do poorly against random scrub he’s never faced is really asinine.

Any random pro going up against any random player may or may not have a tough time. It’s got nothing to do with Infiltration or his stylistic tendencies. Some like to bring up how he got “blown up” vs Brueno guy recently, he certainly had a rough time during 1 set but also came back and defeated him in a different set. That had nothing to do with Brueno being a “random guy” but everything to do with him being a cheesy Cammy player.

Second, regarding Akuma being an op S tier character. Akuma is certainly a top tier character but to suggest he’s S tier because 1 player has dominated a lot of recent tournaments is also ludicrous. Aside from the fact that Tokido does not achieve the same level of success or any other famous Gouki players for that matter, did people forget how Infiltration was a run of the mill pro player with his Akuma pre 2012? He only achieved his current recent streak through sheer work at the lab and perseverance through various tournaments. Players in the FGC community tend to peak like any other sports athlete. Infiltration right now is entering his prime and to put it lamely has achieved S tier on his gameplay/execution, the fact he’s using Gouki to demonstrate this new found skill is what seems to confuse people as to who really is OP here (Akuma or Infiltration). Akuma despite his “easy to use” misconception is not a secondary character. It takes a LOT of work to be successful at a decent calibre tourney (where your ghetto vortex setups won’t work against the average opponent of that tourney).

Third, the man put in his time at the lab, had impeccable research to back up his fundamentally sound style and now people are accusing him of being a tier whore? What crack have you guys been smoking? Where was the hate when Daigo used Guile/Sagat/Yun? Even the current posterboy Xian used Yun when he was top tier and quickly dropped him post nerf towards Gen. Pros will pick a character that suits their playstyle best once they figure it out. The whole Tier debate is what happens after when these pros achieve random success/failures at these tournaments. This is why Kazunoko is sticking it out with Yun despite the nerfs and a guy like Fuudo will never come out of his Fei Long (because that character complements his insane reaction speed / counter attack playstyle). While others are still searching for their character soulmates and will rent a character based on “tier listing” like PR Rog testing out Fei Long or Bonchan contemplating a gouki switch.

Lastly, can we please not go into hypothetical about the supposed hidden masters at random tournament who refuse to travel BS. If they’re worth anything as a player they’ll get sponsored. If they get sponsored they will have the means to travel to various international competitions. I just can’t see how a local fish at a pond can level up on his own to the extent of a true world traveling player. Do I suspect there’s some real hidden killers in Japan we’ve never heard from? Sure. Just because someone is really good at their local arcade however awesome they are does not mean they’ll do well at a large scale tourney. Just look at Floe, despite his piss poor performances at the big stage, he is a skilled player who will probably face roll every random scrub who posts in these forums. Being good at the game is different than being great in tournaments. Evo might not have the average skill level of a typical Japanese tournament but to suggest someone had an “easier time getting to top 16” and won the event on a fluke is retarded.

Infiltration dominated Evo, SF25, Lost at the GF in Canada Cup, won dreamhacks, SCR, FR?, NCR etc… not only in SF4 AE but also in SFXT. Do you seriously think he gives a @#$@ about who he’s “hoping” to face for an easier time to win the tourney? This is the same dude who got shat on by the crowd, who got mentally molested in a brutal 0-3 set against fanboy favorite Daigo only to come back from losers and taming the beast 6-0. Infiltration is not winning because of sketchy shenanigan vortex setups (you only need to see Tokido play to really understand what “cheap” is), he’s winning on fundamental footsies, calculated risks, near flawless execution and above all a mental fortitude that Floe would jizz for.

So I’d like to be on the record here and state that no matter what Capcom does with the 2013 changes, Infiltration is still going to dominate the scene. Not because of his Akuma but because he’s infiltration, the master of adaptation. If you’re sick of seeing him with tournaments then instead of praying on Akuma nerfs (which will affect 99.9% of the random scrubby akumas), hope that the Korean gvt does you a favor and calls Infiltration towards his 2 year mandatory service. Cause unless he’s shipped to the army, I don’t see him relinquishing his title against these mentally weaker opponents.

I can agree with that but what about the part where he we shouldn’t be worrying about Infiltration? That is just downright absurd. He of all people should know what its like getting bodied by Infiltration (perhaps he said this before evo?). Infiltration has the best fundamentals, best footsies, best reactions, best mind games, and the best strategies. He is leagues above the Japanese players and whats more remarkable is that he trains without having the benefit of high level competition.

Laugh? Not top level competition, of course, but good. And the main thing they do according to interviews is stream monstering and lab science anyway.

Laugh is a joke.

Yes, yes, yes!!! Whoever even said that hidden godlike players can’t leave their home country point, needs to be slapped! Bless you…

Akuma isn’t as simple as Ryu, so I doubt Daigo would main Akuma.

So you’re saying that Akuma is too complex for Daigo to learn?

Daigo can definitely play Akuma.
He has the technical skill, and he does have the ability to make amazing reads on his opponent.
Let’s not forget he mained Akuma in SFA3.

I don’t even see how this is a point for contention.

Daigo’s Akuma was the most execution heavy I’ve ever seen, constantly went for harder links that gives better reward but people tend to avoid because they like to be on the safe side with the easier stuff, like HK Tatsu FADC instead of fireball FADC or first hit of DP fadc > combo, both which require one frame link jabs (yeah I know it can be plinked with select button but people still don’t go for it usually because missing the link will get you punished). Also his utilization of U2 was amazing specially off cr.mk, really makes you wonder how Daigo’s Akuma would have turned out if he kept playing him, it was pretty unique.

Difficulty or complexity doesn’t have anything to do with Daigo dropping Akuma, his style just works better with Ryu.

Spoiler

he uses double mapped buttons (to select) for this. infiltration and several other top players do this too.

What the hell?

This.