I play Steve more than nearly anyone else, and here is what works:
His wakeup DP bothering you? Bait it and hit him with a big poke…I don’t play I-no so maybe one of these fine fellows can pick a gatling out for you. How to bait it? Several ways, you can jump in with FD on his wakeup and perhaps he may feel the need to DP. Or do a fast poke intentionally whiffs, backdash, and wait if he DPs…lesson here is, if you can bait his DP, you can punish him big time with one of I-No’s gatlings.
Yeah, Steve is good at anticipating people’s jump ins with the anti-air combo. If you must jump in, use FD…why you’d have to jump in using I-No, I don’t know…hopefully someone else can answer this.
having problems with that yoyo behind ya? when i spar with steve, i try to jump dash over him and far away from where he placed the yoyo as possible. he inevitably will have to call it back, and that small time frame work some I-NO magic. also, just like aggie fan said, jump in with fd, then try throwing him and staying on top of him. never let him be the aggressor! he will hurt you dearly!
As i said before, bridget zones really well so there is going to have to be a bit of anticipation on how to get in. If he does alot of far slash, yoyo stuff use 6P to CH the far slash and combo with 6P,5H, CL. If you are too far to connect a 5H, just do 6P, CL, no or 6P note. Against 2D there isnt much you can safely do without getting hit by bridget’s other options. You can 2S this from the right range, but that will loses to buris far slash. You can do a quick dive to beat far slash and 2D, but that would lose to 6S. Learn the range of 6S and iad back, backdash, or walk slightly beyond its hit box to throw a note out just to force a reaction from bridget. You have to anticipate brigets zoning pattern pretty much and immediately take advantage to start your offensive.
On wakeup, when bridget sets the yoyo you are goign to have to focus on defense and look for holes in the offense. Unless you have 50% tension to super or DAA. Bridget does have to get a knockdown to get this type of offense going.
Like they said for jumpins, use FD to empty jump in if he is trying to 6P/Starship/6S you. Predictable jumpins arent the best idea against bridget cause for the most part bridget has the advantage when he forces you into the air. DJ, airdashes and other tricks might help to cause a whiff to let you get a note out. highly offensive and risky.
Her iad? 96 or 74…or do you mean her iad loops? doesnt work on bridget.
basically, you have to be pretty patient/smart in this fight. bridget out zones i-no on the ground and her great AA kills her dash and jumpins so mobility is limited for i-no. Once you get in or land a combo, it is gonna be hard for bridget. Just have to get there.
Well, keep in mind that I’m arguing the matchup is EVEN, not advantage Sol. That’s why I mentioned his comeback power because it further emphasizes this “first person who can get a lucky hit can win”. Saying that I-no has the same damage potential is also a bit misleading because she doesn’t possess as many options to get her big damage going (unless you have insane amounts of manual dexterity). However it also helps my point of the matchup being even.
In close it pretty much kills almost every move you mentioned as important. 2S I will concede because of range differences, but everything else I said pretty much stands.
2K will probably CH, you didn’t mention that move before. Not a huge deal since crouching 2K at certain ranges guarantees you very little aside from maybe 2S or a 2D (2D being more relevant if you’re looking for knockdowns).
Air dive knocks down/combos but this creates a good situation for Sol to mix up with 5K or dash j.K to combos for good damage and knockdown, so it’s a risk to try the dives sometimes. You can’t dive on reaction to 2D, you have to expect it.
2S does outrange it, I’ll agree. If 2S is being abused, other pokes will have to be in effect, s.H being the main one. CH s.H with Sol is nasty, I shouldn’t have to explain why.
Unless you cancel into slide from a high blockstun move, 2K will kill it for free, and that’s one of Sol’s better pokes when he’s in range for it. Highly annoying, guaranteed knockdowns, safe on block, free Dloops in the corner…2K is so boss. Slides are still good though, they just have to be used in moderation.
Not really. Sol can dash at you until he’s just outside of 2S range and either brake into s.H (free CH, Bandit Bringer or FRCed GF, death to you) or he can also cancel the dash to FRC Gun Flame just outside of 2S range and there’s really not much I-no can do about it besides blocking or jumping away (jumping away from Sol’s pressure is almost always a bad idea). Sol can Bandit Revolver or Bandit Bringer to avoid 2S (the Bringer is less likely to hit, but he can always FRC and do something safer. The Revolver is good if it hits and he can always RC for lots more damage, assuming he has the meter). Shit, Sol can just dash j.P as he enters 2S range; he’ll avoid the 2S and be able to attack for free as he descends. There are plenty of options for dealing with 2S. 2S is a great poke, but you can’t say she gets it for free on him every time he gets near.
Blocked 2S does not mean free note rush. At that range, if you try to note, Sol can dash up and beat on you pretty hard. You should know this as one of my common tactics against your keepout is to just run through your shit. Sol runs under CL keepout and if he gets in close, one or two hit note doesn’t get you anything and he can just hit you back. 2S on hit is another story.
No. I do dash j.P or K at the range I think you would try a dive. Both of these beat dives for free. j.P is uber safe and beats a LOT of shit for no reason at all. j.K beats dives on startup and leads to heavy-hitting aircombos. Both of these mean guaranteed knockdowns if they hit. They aren’t 100% guaranteed to hit you out of the dive every time, but compare the damage. I-no w/no meter gets very little off of her dives, maybe 25% at most plus knockdown. Sol w/no meter gets easy 35-40% damage off of a dash j.K combo on I-no, plus a knockdown. That really weighs heavily in his favor and makes diving a risk unless you space them and anticipate perfectly. Of course, 5K wins for free on all dives in close, with the possible exception of P dive. Dives really don’t concern me that much when I’m fighting I-no. They’re more of an annoyance than a threat.
I-no is at a mere +2 after a CH 5P. Pressing with note pressure is risky. You’re better off poking again, sliding, or just dashing. You should really only push note pressure after a knockdown.
Already addressed how to deal with 2S, just wanted to respond to this. Even if Sol is “out-guessing” I-no, she’s doing the exact same thing because if she messes up and throws 2S at the wrong time, she eats a LOT of damage. The main difference between these two characters is that Sol has way more opportunities to deal large amounts of damage against I-no. Consider the 2S situation: I-no guesses right and hits 2S/gets it blocked. At best, she tacks on a Chemical Love for a little extra damage and knockdown to start her wakes. Good stuff. Let’s say Sol guesses right with s.H, Gun Flame, Bandit Revolver, or even 2D if he just happens to get close enough. ANY of these means I-no takes a fat chunk of damage and gets knocked down. This guessing game is NOT in her favor. Nobody can afford to play guessing games with Sol. He just deals out too much damage per opening. I-no needs specific openings to deal her damage, so it’s much more in her favor to play in a more conservative and calculated manner. Frankly, this is part of the reason why you sometimes lose terribly to me Charles. You are overaggressive and almost spastic at times, and it ends up costing you when you guess wrong and get hit. I think you have a little too much confidence in your character; you really need to play in a toned down manner when fighting Sol.
I still see absolutely no reason for Sol to go airborne against I-no unless he anticipates her going there first. 2S is good but it’s not the Sol killer that you make it out to be. Sol should never IAD at I-no because he can always dash jump instead to avoid her pokes. If she’s not poking on the ground, he can run at her with little to no risk; almost all of her keepout options have a counter from his dashing position. This is still a guessing game, but it can go either way; it definitely isn’t in I-no’s favor.
I talked about RS with the intention of it getting hit. The idea is that if he reverses with Riot Stamp and the note hits him, I-no has to reorient her offense to this and either try to combo off of the note or wait for him to tech and then throw him. Throwing from a tech is always a guessing game and depends entirely on the mindset of the players, so that’s not some big advantage for her. Any combo off of note on an airborne opponent will probably be relatively weak. Of course, mashing RS is not something I recommend doing all the time, it’s just something you do occasionally to break offensive rhythm and confuse your opponent.
Anyway, all I’m trying to argue is that Sol vs I-no is even. Either character can win if both are being played smartly. I don’t advocate some of the stuff that you’ve said here because it sounds overly reckless and that playstyle is never a good idea against a good Sol. Ditto for Sol against I-no, he needs to be careful.
Yup it will CH, but it is one of I-no’s only tools when she is inside since it has a super tech crouch property and leads to I-no’s B&B. As i said before, she has a different, although limited tool set when sol is inside. Also, unless you are at the very edge of 2K’s range, you can combo 2K,6P, 5S, CL. If you are at the edge, you can just do 2K, 2S, CL or note or what have you.
I would say air dives are just as risky as trying to counter them unless I-no is fairly close to sol then 5K runs the show. Also, you dont really have to anticipate a 2D. Use 2S at the edge of its range and use 2K at the edge of its range. It will stop all of sol’s ground movement completely.
If sol waits outside of 2S range and I-no throws a 2S he can hit her with a s.H but only if the i-no player’s timing is off. Waiting a split second and 2S will still kill the 5H. Also, i would say most of the time it does hit I-no out of 2S it isnt a CH because he is hitting i-no out of her recovery frames. so a BB wouldnt be a good choice everytime because I-no can backdash, 6P,5S, CL and get a note. But yes, if sol times a 5H he can stuff the 2S but i think it requires more work on SOl’s part. plus, I-no has more options than this at this range.
As i said before, you will get the CH rarely unless I-no’s messes up. Its way harder than you describe to get a CH everytime. Also, you cant combo into a GF from the distance these two moves will be used against each other. When you do a GF just outside of 2S range, yes I-no can only block or jump away, but just illustrates the general safety of this move. You can jump way from GF pressure unless Sol is right beside you…but in this case he wont be. otherwise 2S would have CH the GF for free.
SOl cannot do BR or BB against 2S. Its far to safe and I-no gets a free throw on block from this range. However, if I-no uses 2S after the BR is airborne, she will get hit. But, you must realize that 2S can CH the startup of the BR. Sol has to work harder to zone with these than I-no does. But, this is a good way for sol to get in if he has 50% meter.
I said before that one of his best options is j.P. It does cut out on a lot of options, and most of I-no’s AA dont deal with this at most ranges so you have to do a psychic CL or airthrow or a j.P of your own. You could also just 41236S to hit sol or escape his dash. BUt hte best option would be a TK air super, but that will not always be available. I would say that his j.P is the only real thing that can easily counter the 2S/I-no ground game. As you have stated, Sol has to really be smart and space 100% to kill this move with 5H and BB or the like and that to me = slight I-no advantage cause she forces sol to up his game and potentially hesitate.
Actually, at that range, Sol has to take the note into account before he does anything. IF you block and i cancel into note, the only moves that outright hit me will be a GV or a Fafnir depending on the range. IF I-no aims the note down it will trade hits with the GV and if I-no FRC’s the note, its safe. Even then, you can do 2S, 2S or other zoning patterns. Actually, I recall you blocking the note after do 2S, note. If i am trying to do random keep out like air note, CL you do run up then…but this is something different. Yup sol runs under CL for a free DLoop.
Another testament to j.P being a solid option for sol right here. But, this requires a decent amount of anticipation. Also, dives yeild mixups, either note mixes or tech traps. Both of these can lead to big damage, but it isnt guaranteed so it isnt that concerning but they can potentialy bring damage and let I-no get her damaging combos that normally will not combo against sol. But, just as you feel, the dives are not a huge threat but they are an additional threat deal with.
Risky? Sol can be up to half a screen away and you just cancelled into a note plus there can be some mental stun because your 5S was just beaten. Its going to force a reaction out of sol or hopefully get a 3+ hitting note on sol. For a mix. you dont cancel into a note and immediately dash over to him. Like you said, you can cancel into other things as well that will empower the note, IMO. Its a mindgame.
hmm, i dont know how to say this again without sounding redundant, but…2S into note is a good option. I-no isnt looking for huge damage when she zones with 2S. Its stopping Sol from getting into his favored position. Plus, I-no puts a note out which Makes sol do some that can lead into I-no’s damage. Using this is a indirect way to get damage but it is just as deadly as sol’s method. Sol is more of a straight forward character so his damage options are going to be mostly straight forward as well.
wow, I think I have beat your sol just as convincingly as you have beaten my I-no if not MUCH more. Everyone that watches us play could argue for either one of our point of views. But that is beyond the point and irrelevent. Yes, i am aggressive, that doesnt change the facts.
I never said 2S was the sol killer. I said zones him on the ground well, especially coupled with i-no’s other ground tools. Yes, its a guessing game. I would say sol has a better time against I-no when he is in the air.
Yeah, i know that you were just illustrating RS as a way to try and make I-no have to vary her offense, but i was trying to point out that since I-no will be dashing after the note anyways, it will be fairly easy to continue your dash for tech throws or what have you. I would agree that he tech mixup would probably be better than a note lockdown mixup.
I STILL think i-no is in favor, albeit slightly. There is a fair amount of mind games that have to go on as each has tools that can beat the others, but I dont understand how what i have posted is overly reckless. See sol rush at you, zone him with 2S. If it connects throw a note dash in or go back to zoning. He can potentially 5H you out of it and sometimes get a CH 5H. Even with this, it doesnt make 2S any less a viable move. Getting a perfect range 5H is harder than zoning with 2S and alot harder than you would think. Also, the strategy I have illustrated is conservative and reactionary if anything. I dont get it. “just running up to I-no” or anyone for that matter is reckless. If outguessing I-no and landing a CH is being makes I-no being reckless, i dont know what to say.
This is great. We dont really get to talk about the sol/i-no matchup but I think both of us are pretty stubborn at this point. About the 2S, Its not the end all be all, nor does it completely shut sol down. But I think it is a good tool against sol that isnt as easily punished as you have said. In #R is still useful but not as safe due to more recovery time and the hit box being moved forward. Have you been testing #R 5H vs 2S. I cant wait until the x-box version comes out so I can play it more often.
Lots of good stuff, I think we’ll just have to play it out sometime and see what works.
One thing though:
I’m not saying I win more often, you read into what I said too much. It’s just something I noticed: the times you lose to me the worst are when you’re being your most reckless (ie spamming stuff and just doing random shit like supers). It’s something that I’ve always noticed in your style and other players notice it too. Even Kevin said so at FR7; your I-no is not as safe as she could be. The kinds of things you’re saying here seem to advocate this sort of play.
For example, you say something like “see Sol run up to you, zone him with 2S”. You talk about it as if you can just press 2S as soon as he gets into range and bam, you’re in control. But I can just as easily say “run up to I-no and cancel to GF then FRC just outside of 2S range”. That’s actually a really good counter to it because if you 2S, Sol gets free CH and can probably BB you for free to start some of his nastier combos. Normal hit means free aircombo and if you block or jump away, he can continue to aggress you. Granted, he won’t have that meter ALL the time, but he can get it pretty quickly. This is something he should be doing a lot anyway. You give really good tips, don’t get me wrong. But from my POV, it seems like you’re misrepresenting how good the move is.
It’s just…you say you think she has a slight advantage, but you talk about it as if she has a big advantage. I dunno.
Anyway, don’t get the impression that I’m being arrrogant or trying to demean you. I fully realize how often you beat me and you should damn well know that from when we talk. I respect you Charles, don’t let any doubt of that creep into your mind.
Moving away from that…
My involvement with CvS2 has sort of toned down my GG play, coupled with the fact that I haven’t been playing Dale or you or anybody else who’s really into the game. I’ve mostly been helping Lucious learn as he helps me with CvS2. Anyway, we should try to hook up this weekend and play, both XX and #R.
I didnt think you were trying to demean me at all. Sorry about my post i guess i didnt realize whether or not i was sounding stupid/mean/upset/whatever. And i certainly wasnt trying to demean you either. Dont worry about it, BOF. Even if you were, i think you know by now that type of talk doesnt phase me. I do agree that I play agressive and less safe, but its a constant battle for me. I dont know…When i talked to kevin i had a different take how i was being overly agressive…
Also, if sol ever does a GF right out of I-no’s 2S range, it wont ever hit her. No CH or normal hit. She is safe to BD, block, or jump or whatever.
I might have made it sound like I-no owns Sol but I dont that isnt the case at all. No one can completely neutralize sol. I think her advantage is only by a small margin. Once sol gets inside its a real battle for I-no. Now if I-no’s combos actually hit sol i think it would be a much clearer advantage :rolleyes:
Yeah, Lu said he was going to have a cvs2/ggxx session last weekend and nothing happened…i wanted to go to that. IF anything is going down let me know whats up this weekend.
Is it just the butterfly trap that is giving you trouble? I have only played a few anji’s and few of them were any good. The butterfly trap can be difficult to escape because I-no’s best options against getting it started require 50% tension. Fortunately, the traps are not always perfect and smart use of IB, FD, and BD Also, the butterfly traps are not truly unblockable all the time. If you quickly block low, high, low or high, low or what have you depending on the string, you can block it.
I think only an ON leads to a perfect butterfly trap so if the opponent is doing something like ON, shitsu, 66, 2P, 5S, 2S, 2D, you only have a couple of options to get out. In general, I always IB the butterfly and try to BD out (good or bad you decide) which escapes all non-ON butterfly traps. If the 2P is chained quickly after the butterfly, you wont be able to BD after the IB because you are still in Blockstun. However, from here i just FD and block the following string which will usually push anji out of 2S range. If Anji decides to run in closer to negate your FD and make a true unblockable, you should be able to BD before the 2P connects or ever super after IBing the butterfly and can escape that way.
However, that only works assuming anji will always go for the unblockable. He can run up with a 2K/2147P or a 5P,2D/5P,2147P and much more for a mixup. If he thinks you are going to BD he can do his super or his 236H to punish, both of which lead to another ON. If anji is trying to bait your BDs you should stick with just FDing and blocking low, high, low or whatever while looking for a hole to punish/escape. But if anji opts to mixup more than straight lockdown, you can escape easier. It requires abit of reading and practice, but you arent hopeless on defense.
If he is using his autoguards, 2K and 2D CH all of them, iirc, except for 2H and I-no’s other normals beat 2H. If he doesnt instantly cancel into the P move, chaining into 6P will CH all of them except for maybe 6H. If you anticipate anji using a 2H to autoguard, you can CH with your own 2H which leads to 6P combos or 2H, 41236S combos/mixup.
Your main zoning tools for this fight should be CL as anji cannot run under it, 2S, 2D , and a spaced note. Anji can hop over the 2S and 2D but they are good tools and the 2D especially good as it cuts through some of his autoguard. Anji has to work pretty hard to get his game started. And he cant really just run up and start an offense.
The only anji whose SRK handle i remember is prof lester. I dont remember the names of the others, however. As I have said, I havent played as many anji’s as i have sol’s or ky’s or what have you. Maybe around 5 people or so. But from my limited experiance, that is how I handle the the Btrap.
I’m getting out of the thread and you guys can help our local buddy.
