Thank you. It’s a shitty situation but we seriously needed to hear the other side’s story to make more sense out of the mess. Now it’s much more clear.
Which confirms my initial observation:
@Worm: Justin did not see the final bracket. He saw one of the drafts. In SSFIV Pool 1, Justin came out in Winners. In Pool 2, PR Balrog came out in Winners. This meant that, if Pool 1 vs Pool 2 were used, Justin would play PR Balrog in Round 1 of Top 8 Winners Bracket. Before anyone played in any matches in SSFIV Top 8, I seeded Justin and PR Balrog away from each other because they were the top 2 seeds in Winners.
However, I should not have let any of the Top 8 see the brackets. At the time I didn’t see any harm in it, but I will never let it happen again.
EDIT: Asura is correct. After reviewing the video, Justin had seen the bracket with him versus PR Balrog. However, seeding them away from each other based on skill was still my decision. The coin flip was done to determine whether Justin played against Wolfkrone or Inthul.
That was actually my stick. I checked afterwards and the cord case was out of the te and I was like WTF? Nice to know that Noel slammed my stick. I’m never lending it out again.
And yeah I will agree tourneys have been rigged for years. Osirun does a stand up job though powerup was amazing
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Although I do not have any tourney experience, please let me just add in my five cents…
When I think of a tourney, I think that you shuffle seeds once at the beginning and let it ride till the end. To do this, does the following things:
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Eliminates doubt of any conspiracy theories/ rigged matches (which is being suspected of right now)
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Promotes new-comers, and gives them their fair shot in the spot-light against experienced vets (Gamerbee in last Evo)
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Keeps everything simple and transparent. Saves time and energy wasted to make changes…
Now I am not blaming anyone here, I enjoyed the stream (J. Wong something specifically for you at the end of this) despite the changes however looking at this blow up on a thread after the event’s finished shines a bad light down on the gaming community. To the host of the PU tourney, good job getting everything set up (although I could only see from my pc screen). I do disagree however, with any decision to make changes to brackets (even at the finals stage) for reasons above. However its a little after fact now but we can call it lesson learned and move on and look forward to PU2012. Next time KISS (keep it simple) so we dont have everyone blowing up SRK calling “Martin Riggs”.
Now for JW just wanted to say I was a bit disappointed in your match with Rog at the end. Kinda expected more from your adon but it seemed sooooooo stiff especially considering your rufus. Probably because your still figuring him out but I still think your Rufus > Adon. I know I’ma scrub compared to the name you have in the fighting community espeically in SSF4 but spark up that offense in your Adon man. And really if you think he is bad, just quit him cause he is truly holding you back.
There done.
Randomized brackets = hype. Seeing a Daigo, or a Justin get knocked out in their first matches is exciting stuff. And that’s when new stars are born, and we don’t have the usual suspects in Top 4, and friends letting friends win.
You paid a $300 plane ticket to fight your training partner first round? Don’t give a fuck.
Oh man sorry homie, I think you were over by the stream table or something…happened kinda quick and he just bolted out. Another stick was just laying upside down on the ground and people were just stepping over it, I was shaking my head…
Though ultimately Justin didn’t want to play him so it was changed, right? I’m kind of confused here. Regardless of any confusion Justin decided he didn’t want to play PR ROG. Whether that was some kind of confusion over him seeing the wrong bracket really doesn’t matter, in the end he stated how he wanted the pools to be arranged and they were arranged that way. There’s nothing in the video about “Justin thought he was going to play Inthul”. Which is the kind of language you’d expect to see if he saw a draft he thought was final.
Lol…mad props to everyone in Team Spooky for keeping shit real though. The only guys that came out of this fiasco clean.
Randomized brackets = anti-hype. Shitty for the players, shitty for the spectators. Seeding is necessary in majors, but the process needs to be transparent.
A direct quote is “Justin doesn’t want to face PR Rog”
Who cares who he does or doesn’t want to face? Why flip a coin? Let the brackets go where the brackets go. Tell him to deal with it.
What’s anti-hype about it? Tournament is to prove your skills against any and everyone right? maybe? little bit?
Our tourneys usually last 10 hours (from 12-10) and are 9-10 rounds. Signups start the day before at majors and at 9-10ish the day the tourney starts.
That’s really the only problem. One solution can be get more people to bring setups but I know that’s already hard enough to do. Getting at least 5 setups doesn’t seem too hard to do. If players are holding up the tourney just skip them, give them a match loss, or DQ them to keep it moving. I’ve played in poverty tourneys where we had to play cards on the floor or at random Starbucks across the street. Anythings possible.
I completely agree with this. While the “pros” will complain that it will lead to less talented players moving forward in the brackets, it COMPLETELY eliminates all conspiracy theories and just creates hype. JWong vs Daigo in the end of 1 bracket? Someone’s ass is going to losers.
If a no name player makes the top 8 or further, obviously they ain’t that bad a player (or are on the single gaming day of their life) and that just creates a story for the tournament and increases the hype.
And yeah, eliminates all of this “but that’s my friend” bullshit.
I wanna see Gooteks vs Mike Ross @ EVO goddamnit!
I participated in that thread, too. I even got a response from Valle asking me to name tourneys that rigged seeding. I never got a response when I named names.
I disagree. You are saying this on the basis that well known players should be moved for the possibility that they play each other at the end of the tourney. Well what about the unknown player who made his way to the top and knocked out one of these well known players. Remember when they hyped up cleveland vs lakers and Lebron them got their ass thrown out by Orlando? We got a surprise when JWong was put out of Evo last year. You randomize it so that people “actually” get to see the hype matches because of the possibility (especially in the finals) of an upset since we are all human and can all loose.
Edit: It also allow us newb gamers to look upto someone else for a change…
What’s anti-hype is marquee match-ups in round 1 or 2 and a bunch of no-names in top 8. Seeding does not prevent the possibility of upsets, by any means; it just facilitates a star-packed finale and, as has already been stated, prevents bad situations like going home in round 2 to your sparring partner, who happens to be the 2nd best player in the tournament.
As someone who was there, Osirun was mostly at a desk with a lot of the brackets. At any point a player could probably just talk to him early in the day and see the brackets. I am not sure if this is the case with the draft bracket we are talking a bout, but I think it may have been how Justin saw it. It isn’t the biggest issue though I know I was looking at the Pool 3 and 4 brackets for most of Saturday before they started. Honestly I think it’s pretty much a positive to have players be able to see the brackets. It prevents more errors. It’s not like anyone would really go up and like, write their name into top 8 or something.
Hey dude, just thought I’d let you know we all conspired before the tournament and made sure to pit you up against ‘broken’ staff members. We knew you would obviously win all the games you entered since “MattO” is the best player… we knew we had to stop you somehow! We made sure that you’d go 0-2 to unfair staff members. Surely you didn’t go 0-2 for any other reason than that!
Okay joking aside, I’d also like to hear -who- DQ’d you versus just shitting on the entire scene. But keep in mind, it’s pretty common at larger tournaments to need to wait for a match. Considering we need players to be at the stream in a timely manner, it can tend to hold up tournaments not on the stream at the moment. Especially when grand finals etc are occurring since you can’t pull those players away since they’ll be playing another match in another 5 minutes after finishing. Next time you’re at a larger tournament, have some patience and use that little break to get yourself a bite to eat or go support your other friends competing. Try not to see it as the issue you see it as since it is almost always going to happen.
Don’t understand why it’s shitty for the players. Outside of the people who benefit from seeding I don’t see how its bad for anyone else.
And? What’s wrong with no names exactly? You play who you have to play, if you’re upset you have to play against your friend round 1 then tough shit. Two top players have to play each other early? tough shit. Why should anyone get any sort of preferential treatment?
When money is on the line, seeding is necessary. Joe shmoe could be on one side of the brackets with all easy matches while all of the top pros are on the other side. Joe Shmoe makes it to winners finals and loses. Now he’s in losers finals and gets 3rd place. He gets money even though there were many good player who placed below him. This is why we have seeding and double elimination brackets. To get the most accurate results. If an upset happens, then that’s great. Shit gets really hype. But organizers should only seed maybe top 8 players in normal sized tournaments to prevent any random average-level player from getting prize money when they don’t try as hard, nor play as well as top players.