Rog players, am I right that fierce headbutt escapes the demon? I’m not sure about this, it was just a guess.
If timed properly, you are correct.
I posted this in the Ban Akuma thread:
In short, I was wrong. Partially due to some of my own oversights, partially because I assumed when other people had tested it they’d done so properly, and partially thanks to some weird luck with some short tests.
Anyway, I’ve now tested it properly with a very large sample size and lots of variation in setups and the like, and have come to the following conclusions:[list][]There is a 75% chance that Raging Demon cannot be jumped out of from blockstun.
[]That’s it. Crouching doesn’t matter. Timing doesn’t matter.[/list]
I believe this is caused by a combination of two things. I’ve only confirmed their existence in CE, but I’m pretty certain they’re present in all the other incarnations of SF2 as well:
[list][]On the reversal frame of blockstun, you can only perform special moves (unlike hitstun), and are vulnerable to grabs.[/list]As such, the only way for Raging Demon to miss someone trying to jump away after blocking would be for it to somehow miss this frame. This is made possible by another quirk in the game engine:
[list][]On each frame, the game processes the players in a random order.[/list]
Sometimes Player 1 takes priority, sometimes Player 2, making the following situation possible:
- Frame 1. Raging Demon tries to grab, Other player enters recovery frame.
- Frame 2. Other player enters jump frame, Raging Demon tries to grab.
There are four ways in total that the game could process this situation, and this is the only one that will cause Akuma to miss. This matches up with the 75% figure that I arrived at from testing.
If this is correct, then it would make it difficult to patch as it’s an issue relating to grabs in general rather than specifically Raging Demon, so adjusting it without affecting other things would require some pretty nasty game engine hacking.
I’d prefer they patch the jumping roundhouse first, ugh 
Anyone got serious tips for dealing with that with Sim? I thought chop worked, but it seems unreliable. I keep getting tagged with random jump roundhouses all the time unless I block, which when I know it’s coming I shouldn’t have to do 
Holy crap, good job in research Sprint. If true, reversals are the only (guarnteed) way out. And not everybody has a reversal that’ll get them out.
Oh, and Zangief can beat air fireball clean with a kick lariat.
- Crouch
- Hit KKK (or LP+LK) just before the fireball hits.
- Fireball misses because Zangief’s hitbox suddenly goes from being very low to very high and skips right past it.
- Akuma gets smacked by it, and the delay caused by hitting him means the fireball reaches the ground before Zangief runs out of low invincibility.
The timing is pretty strict.
If Akuma doesn’t have full meter then make sure you don’t lariat too early or you’ll hit the fireball rather than block it and give him a free combo.
If he does have meter then just go for it without worrying, because he’s likely going for a Raging Demon tick anyway.
Also Cammy’s thrust kick trades hits with air fireball (hugely in her favour damage-wise).
Or, if Akuma is close enough that she’ll go underneath him and miss, it also means the fireball is far enough back for thrust kick to completely dodge it.
Does this not validate the fabled sac-throw advantage?
But I digress…
Wait a second, are you SprintGod from tasvideos? Had no clue you played SF at all!
And thanks a lot for working on this. I do find that bit about blockstun hard to believe, since I and many other players have always been able to counter-throw out of blockstun, but that’s not really for this thread…
lol i always felt as if i could throw faster when i took the hit rather than blocking it… atleast now i know im not insane.
quick question: how long will the game hold the input for a special move such as an SRK when done when knocked down? IE, if i finish the srk motion and hit the button say five frames before the reversal frame will i still get the srk??? what is the exact leniency on this… i KNOW theres some sort of buffer going on, it may be only 2 frames and could be as much as 6-7. also how come its pretty much impossible to wakeup srk against a meaty fireball? i srk with reversal messages all day on wakeup but of course can never get a reversal against the fireballs… do they nullify the ability to input a command on the reversal frame when overlapping the sprite?
there must be some sort of buffer going on in wakeup games in streetfighter… anyone whos played sf4 knows its WAY easier to do wakeups with reversal timing on that game, whaich suggests a bigger buffer window while waking up. also its pretty easy to wakeup against meaty fireballs on that game with ultras, i dont know about the special moves tho. so maybe only ultras have the long buffer window??? hmmm…
also … and perhaps im WAY off base here, but has anybody had troubles doing dp’s on remix??? i know i have, and at first i thought i was losing my touch or my stick was malfunctioning, so i’d go into training mode do dp’s across the screen and be like “no thats not it” it must be the lag dropping inputs or something… but then i noticed that i wasnt dropping near as many dp’s ahainst weak op’s so i was like what gives, i know i drop dp’s more against good players but not this many… then i went back to training mode did the dp’s again and noticed that i couldnt get them out AT ALL when i delayed the button input (which is a tactic i use when under pressure mostly) i thought no way… they said dp’s are easier now why would they shorten the input buffer? so i turned on classic mode and BOOM delayed dp’s came out easily once again… THERE IS A DIFFERENCE i dont care what sirlins blog says about the fifteen frames being constant now, if you dont believe me just go try it for yourself in classic and remix, classic leaves a much more noticeable buffer.
i’ve since adjusted and only mention this because i see this as a bug that wasnt intentioned that should be fixed. the long buffer still works for supers tho.
-dime
- edit- i just noticed i posted all this in the how to deal with akuma thread… srry about that. so heres the only thing i havent seen mentioned that i do:
with blanka juming straight up fierce against ANTICIPATED air fireballs pimpslaps akuma with some serious step back ho type a damage and workedquite well for me against the akuma players i played against (not that they were particularly great).
How did you come to this conclusion? I’m pretty sure this is not true in CE, and it’s definitely not true in ST. You can do reversal anything, and you are not vulnerable to grabs, because the reversal frame is still technically block-stun. Only specials/supers will give you the “Reversal Attack” message, but you can definitely do reversal throw or reversal normal.
Functionally, block-stun and hit-stun are exactly the same, including length. There is no reason to take the hit - it does not make it easier to reversal.
YES! My DP success rate dropped by about 25% in Remix…:sad:
Man my success rate at DPs went up to 150%. I do them even when I’m trying to walk forward and throw a fireball
I was under the impression that you had two frames to do a reversal special - the last frame of recovery (blockstun, hitstun, or wakeup), or the first frame of ‘recovered’ state. Normals however could not cancel the last frame of recovery, and instead must be done on that first recovered frame.
Akuma’s Super you mean? I didnt get what you said.
EDIT: Nvm.
I played against a pretty good akuma player yesterday and I had success against him, but I will say that he was going for 90% air fireball tricks and he didn’t play akuma like a true shoto. I think that was the only reason I was winning against him. Just like sirlin said. When someone tries to do air fb’s set up’s all day you can find away around it, but when you mix in the og shoto skills he is very hard to beat. You block low against akuma with blanka when he doesn’t have a super. But when he has a super you have to keep moving. I would do random shit just to throw the akuma player off so he couldn’t get me in the death RD trap. YOU CAN’T AVIOD IT IMO!
You just have to try and kill him before he gets the super meter. If he didn’t build super meter so fast I don’t think he would be that bad. If it took 2x as long to build super meter than other characters I think you could kill him before he got the super. He builds super the best in hd remix imo and he has the best set up’s for his supers. With blanka you almost have to guess when he is going to air fb you. If he tiger knee the motions you can jump up with RH kick and trade if he is st starting range. Your RH kick will do more damage.
You need to try and tick throw him if you have the chance. The problem with that strat is akuma’s JAB DRAGON PUNCH!!! That shit is the “RAID” and every other character in hd remix are roaches! I hope I get to play against more good akuma’s but 99% of them are scrubby as fuck on psn.
As Honda, if I cash super the minute i get it, I’m normally more than 50% of the way to getting my second by the time akuma gets his daemon, or more. But I generally find honda builds up super fast
Well honda and chun li might build super faster than akuma due to the rapid mashing attacks, but that about it imo. Everyone will build meter slower. Maybe feilong also will build meter faster than akuma, but a good akuma is always building super meter. Like I said i’ve only played 1 maybe to decent akuma players on psn and I don’t have a 360.
No.
It’s not that you can’t use them to reverse from blockstun.
It’s that, in CE, it isn’t possible most of the time for the same reasons as jumping out of Akuma’s Raging Demon in HDR.
This can also be verified to occur in HDR by doing the following:
[list][]1. Zangief vs Zangief.
[]2. Perform a close Standing Short with P1.
[]3. Hold up on both controllers.
[]If it hit, both players jump exactly in sync (neutral on hit).
[]If blocked, P2 will jump 1 frame later.[/list]
and:
[list][]3. Pause the game just before it recovers
[]4. Hold down a button on each controller.
[]5. Unpause the game.
[]If the Short hit, then either both players will attack or neither of them will depending on the timing.
[]If the Short is blocked and P2 was holding for a Lariat during pause, ditto.
(Though sometimes if you try a Lariat with P1 you’ll get Jab instead as for some reason you can’t do a Lariat on the first frame of recovery after a move)
[*]If the Short is blocked and P2 was holding for a normal/grab, sometimes only P1’s move will come out because P2 could only have performed specials on that frame.[/list]
However, after carefully looking at it, I think that in ST / HDR, the code may have been tweaked somewhat so that normals and throws can come out on this frame, but sometimes they don’t which causes the above to still happen. I’m not sure since HDR doesn’t have a frame advance feature to properly check it with so I’m having to judge it visually, which is pretty damn difficult.
And let’s not forget that the game’s speed up code uses frame skipping which can affect input timing in weird ways.
All I’m certain about in terms of HDR is that jumping never comes out on this frame, which is probably why RD nearly always hits if you try doing so after blockstun.
Sirlin got into the machine code. I have trouble believing that Akuma’s super can be inescapable 75% of the time. 50% would make sense, but why would a random number generator favor one opponent over the other?
I’ll wait for something from Sirlin regarding whether Akuma’s super can be escaped or not.
He’s saying there are two things that can happen, each with a 50 percent chance. The only way to escape is if both things happen in player 1s favour, i.e. 25% of the time. 50% of the time the first thing will fail, and 25% of the time, the first thing won’t fail BUT the second will.
Here’s a new question:
What can punish Akuma’s teleport on reaction?
I’m guessing standing moves generally work, as well as most character’s crouching fierce, but I don’t know for sure. I never played any Akuma’s who abuse the port. Can you cancel the move you punish the teleport with into another move for a combo?
So like with Ryu can something like:
Akuma ports, while moving Ryu c.HPs him, Akuma goes into regular hitstun, Ryu cancels into Red Fireball for two hit combo.
Is this possible or does Kuma count as in the air while porting? Or could Kuma end up appearing on the opposite side of you after being hit out of teleport?