Wondering if you guys could clear up some questions on how to effectively AA Lariat.
() On wake-up I can’t do it correctly. If I spam KKK lariat after getting knocked down and my opponent has a well timed jump in attack, I’ll get hit.
() I also have the same problem while standing and using KKK lariat. A well timed HK from Ryu for example will win over my KKK Lariat.
What am I doing wrong?
Is it my timing of Lariat? Do I have to delay it? Do I have to be crouched for AA lariat to work?
This will also trade most of the time. I suggest training yourself to do an EX-GH after the trade to catch them as their falling. This is also playstyle as to how to conserve your EX, but I recommend using it to do any damage you can. It also brings you closer to them after the damage for another mix-up.
I remember playing against your gief.
You really have to get your BnB combo down, cr.lp -> cr.lp -> cr.lk xx EX-GH.
You were spamming cr.lp -> cr.lp -> st.mp but weren’t consistent with the number of jabs and would miss your mp.
Honestly, it amazes me how alot of Gief users on here swear by the AA lariat, you know, the cr.PPP.
A year + into this game alotttt of people have found so many lariat stuffing moves its ridiculous. You say wait to the last minute. Ok, but some characters have so much variation in their jumpins, it becomes very difficult to time everyone to the TEE. what we have like 40 characters in SSF4 now, lol
Take a Guile jumpin HK, looks almost identical to his j LK, but he seems to float with the LK. Totally different timing to the AA cr.PPP here. And anyone who can consistently stuff Rogs j.HP,HK if he knows his spacing is a God in my eyes.
The one thing I’ve gotten is that if they stuff my lariat with a LP/LK they are very likely to continue on the ground as if they can combo but i catch them in a 360. This is the only positive I can get sometimes from the failed AA PPP, most times though, it really costs me the match thinking my cr.PPP is a DP.
Against higher jumpers like Chun and Bison, really starting to use the cr. MP. Almost a must against Chun in my opinion. Never use it against a Shoto. Also try this against nj whores.
And there always is block. But blocking is risky against good mix-up characters.
The AA properties of PPP lariet has not been nerfed. What the f are you guys talking about there is no normals that would hit you if you were standing that you can not trade or beat clean with well timed PPP lariet. jump away moves don’t count. No one in Chicago Whos any good will ever jump in on me not chuns not rogs and think it’s safe. They can switch up the jump attacks to make the timing trickier but you can still beat all jump-INS if you know what to look for. NJ attacks only beat lariet if they were going to wiff and then you lariet, same with any jump ins. AA ppp latiet is the best tool gief has and is the only reason he’s so good. Its THE best AA special move in the game. And yes it can beat hondas nj fp if you time it right.
BP…LOL. I saw this thread and said to myself stay away from this one. No use explaining.
Just let this one go. When they cr.PPP more they will understand. Experience is the only way.
Don’t get frustrated guys, just keep at it. Just know there are only a few things in the whole game that will beat a cr.PPP. If your cr.PPP is getting beat you just need to work on your timing.
Sorry man, i just can’t buy cr. PPP is better than a DP for AA. You have to be so pinpoint for the 100’s of permutations of jump-ins/35 characters to get that AA on someone who knows the AA stuffing angle(s)/timing. Not saying it can’t be done cuz obviously you folks say its cake, just that the timing is MUCH, MUCH stricter than lets say a DP, so you have ALOT more room for error with cr. PPP and one error usually means fat ass jumpin combo.
edit:
“The key to the Balrog match is to do PPP lariat AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE. Rog’s jump HK, […] beat it clean, […].” - the matchup thread
I’ve always been a huge fan of late cr.ppp lariat myself. However, the frame data from the stickied thread in this forum shows these to be the first active frames of ppp lariat:
That red lined box above the hitbox is vulnerable to everything but projectiles. So doesn’t this call into question ppp lariat as a perfect AA? The hitbox data suggests it can in fact be beaten by certain well timed jump ins.
^^^ Nope that red line shows why you need to do crouching ppp lariet and why that can beat out stuff the normal ppp lariet gets stuffed by. So you go from you crouching hitbox to the PPP lariet hitbox after the attack has already pass threw the vunrable area that way you get a trade to ex gh.
All I know I have yet to play a rog that can stuff my AA lariet with a jump in. I have played alot of rogs in touneys that thought they could who ended up in the losers bracket because of it but what do I know.
Yeah…back in the SFA days, KKK worked effectively as an AA. They changed that around where you have to use the PPP Lariat for AA; it took a while to train myself out of using KKK instinctively.
You have to wait until the opponent is deep in his jump before you can use a Lariat. While crouching before performing the PPP does help get under your opponent’s A2G attack sometimes, it’s a very dangerous practice. Simply put, you can’t defend against air attacks while blocking low! This is even more dangerous if your opponent uses a low-target air attack (i.e. Chun Li’s HK, Rose’s LK, etc.) to cut your attack off.
As long as you don’t have a significant lead over your opponent, a Crouching Lariat isn’t advisable. You might be able to use it for a surprised trick, but it should definitely not be BnB.
The following strategy is the safest if you want to use a Lariat to reset your opponent’s position: if you see an opportunity to hit an AA Lariat, hold Back before you do it. That way, if the opponent attempts to land an A2G attack against you before they are in optimal range to do a Lariat, you will block the attack, and you can set up for retaliation, like a counter 360. If they screw up their timing, whether by attacking early, attacking late, or using the wrong attack, you will land your AA Lariat. From there, you can switch to your wake-up countering game, like a cross-up Body Splash or a ground-initiated strategy, like a wait-until-flowchart-Ken-does-a-Wake-Up-Shoryuken 360.
^^^ wow this above statement is very wrong on a bunch of different levels. Kkk lariet is a worthless aa move that is only usefull vs empty jumps and cammy/rufus super low dive kicks. AA lariet is needed otherwise people are going to jump in on u all day. To block and 360 reversal is super risky and nj ultraed bu most the cast. I’m pretty sure blackout doesn’t know how to aa lariet.
Also I like how the guys who give the worst advise never post their xbl or psn tags.
Wow, do you guys even read the whole entry before even speaking?
I said I used KKK Lariats in SFA3, not SSFIV. The KKK Lariat is the worst against airborne opponents in the SFIV series.
Personally, I don’t use the Lariats much these days for anti-air. If need be, I’d use his standing far MP. CHOP that schidt out of the air! Or if I’m feeling old school, standing close LP. It doesn’t do damage, but it gets the job done on stopping the advance.
And I don’t see the reversal 360 as that much of a risky move. You probably call it risky because you don’t have confidence in your 360 execution. I’ve been driving the piles for over 15 years. The problem is that all the other moves around the 360 motion change up, and Zangief can’t survive on 360s alone. My 360 execution is perfect, just not everything else.
Porter’s right: no AA special is perfect. Otherwise, the game would be unbalanced. The only strategy that will ALWAYS work against air attacks is the standing block. What comes afterwards is an entirely different story.
It’s too bad that I couldn’t find intelligent and mature conversation in this thread. It’s always this “you’re a noob” treatment. And as for my XBL/PSN tags, I don’t have to write them because my SRK username IS my tag. Well, my PSN tag…I find paying for an online membership like XBL a waste of money. I have to spend it on more important stuff…like rent.
No, you can’t defend against air attacks while blocking low, but you don’t have to because lariat beats pretty much all jump-ins including the ambiguous ones like Chun and Rog that people tend to have trouble with. It’s not a surprise trick, its the fuckin Aeigs Shield of SSFIV. But that’s only when it’s done crouching. Your strategy of holding back and then doing lariat is probably why you have trouble AAing with it correctly.
St.MP and LP are decent situational AAs like for dealing with safe jumps, but they’re not even remotely close to being substitutes for lariat.
360 “execution difficulty” aint why trying that shit is risky. It’s the fact that they can nj and then ultra your face off. Seriously, blocking and mashing SPD is your alternative to AAing with lariat and creating a KD that lets you start your oki? Come on mayne. And no offense, but shit like***:****
From there, you can switch to your wake-up countering game, like a cross-up Body Splash or a ground-initiated strategy, like a wait-until-flowchart-Ken-does-a-Wake-Up-Shoryuken 360.
***don’t make you look anywhere near as credible as bp.
Anybody that’s having trouble AAing with PPP lariat just needs to practice a little more. Most jumpins can be beat with the same timing while there are characters who have different and more ambiguous timing. It takes a while to learn them all and I doubt even the pros are completely immune to gettin hit with a weird jumpin every now and then, but to suggest that anything other than cr.PPP lariat is Zangief’s most viable AA is ignorant as hell.
Geez, I’m just about done trying to explain myself on these boards.
I’m not the one with Lariat trouble! I do just fine. Maybe it was my fault for opening my mouth in the first place, considering that I do everything on instinct. I honestly couldn’t tell you exactly when to do a Lariat to AA; I just know when to do it. I also couldn’t exactly tell you when to use MP or LP or low MP to counter air attacks, I just do them.
And this “blocking and mashing SPD” thing you speak of. I didn’t say anything like “mashing.” You don’t get anywhere with mashing.
What’s wrong with the following strategy: “Assume a guard position (holding back) when anticipating for an anti-air Lariat, and wait for the right time to do it. If the air attack hits before you’re supposed to hit the Lariat, you block safely and change your strategy.” It’s safe. While you deal no damage doing this strategy, you save yourself some damage so you can survive another moment longer. Doing a 360 on-counter is one option I mentioned, but it’s not definitive.
Chief713, no offense taken, but I didn’t say what I said to get credibility. Doesn’t anyone have a frickin’ sense of humor on these boards? Lighten up, people.
In the end, talking about this strategy and that strategy on this board doesn’t really prove much. It’s not like people can take strategies they read and do them effectively the first time. Like what everyone’s been saying on this board; practice makes perfect. Admittedly, if I really wanna live up to what I preach, I need some practice myself. Haven’t fired up the game in weeks.
Geez, I’m just about done trying to explain myself on these boards.
I’m not the one with Lariat trouble! I do just fine. Maybe it was my fault for opening my mouth in the first place, considering that I do everything on instinct. I honestly couldn’t tell you exactly when to do a Lariat to AA; I just know when to do it. I also couldn’t exactly tell you when to use MP or LP or low MP to counter air attacks, I just do them.
And this “blocking and mashing SPD” thing you speak of. I didn’t say anything like “mashing.” You don’t get anywhere with mashing.
What’s wrong with the following strategy: “Assume a guard position (holding back) when anticipating for an anti-air Lariat, and wait for the right time to do it. If the air attack hits before you’re supposed to hit the Lariat, you block safely and change your strategy.” It’s safe. While you deal no damage doing this strategy, you save yourself some damage so you can survive another moment longer. Doing a 360 on-counter is one option I mentioned, but it’s not definitive.
Chief713, no offense taken, but I didn’t say what I said to get credibility. Doesn’t anyone have a frickin’ sense of humor on these boards? Lighten up, people.
In the end, talking about this strategy and that strategy on this board doesn’t really prove much. It’s not like people can take strategies they read and do them effectively the first time. Like what everyone’s been saying on this board; practice makes perfect. Admittedly, if I really wanna live up to what I preach, I need some practice myself. Haven’t fired up the game in weeks.
Which shows that maybe you’re not AA Lariating very well. It’s not very dangerous… it’s awesome and one of the best AA’s in the game. Also, “defending against air attacks while blocking low” doesn’t have anything to do with AA Lariating. Because if you’re doing a Lariat then you’re not blocking anyway.
Since you asked what the problem with that strategy is, I’ll tell you. The problem is that you did NOT do an AA Lariat. That’s because you were holding the back direction. An AA Lariat (one that beat something other than empty jumps) REQUIRES that you hold down, not back. There are very few moves in the game that can beat a properly timed AA Lariat, and even those moves have to be spaced very well. So unless it’s one of those very few moves, then simply blocking is an inferior choice to doing an AA Lariat. It’s better to damage the opponent and score a knockdown than be stuck in a block string and on the defensive. THAT’S what is wrong with that strategy.
