oh my god “…The Sims…” :rolleyes:

anyway, i think it’s stupid to compare games like MGS and beu

i think it’s like comparing movies to sports…

RPGs nowadays are all cliched. Battle systems are boring and are insanely easy (except, of course, for those odd games like Unlimited Saga). Everyone nowadays wants some super extravagant story but everyone seems to have forgotten what gameplay is all about. Xenosaga series is the best example of this.
Sports have evolved? Not really. It just grows to be more realistic. They also tend to overhype little features, make roster updates, and release it next year. Not to mention, it’s very statistically based and does not offer true balanced gameplay. Taking a wide open shot in NBA 2k5 is just playing statistics. Or that wide receiver dropped the ball? Well, that’s because his catch rating was 45.
Strategy, I can see how that evolved, with hero units, group bonuses, flanking bonuses, etc, and there are all new types.

Fighting games evolve due to systems. Look at GGXX. There are tons of systems in it. or CvS2. Shorthop, parry, rolls, airblocking, stocks, super jump… those are the kinds of systems that developers add to evolve the game. Tekken 5 adds the crush system, adjusts frame advantage and it plays completely different. And best of all, it’s entirely dependent on the player to make or break it… yes, there’s tiers, but for the most part, it’s not like you’re going to miss a random shoryuken because your uppercut rating was only 82.

Fighting games are dwarfed in popularity to the other games for reasons. Many which have nothing to do with depth or whether the games 1 vs 1 or not. Some people are simply not turned on by the “fighting” genre. People give more credence to the games they like and often confuse “depth” with preference.

It has been proven time and time again that depth does not equal a good game. Whats the point of the argument.

His point was fighting games never evolved. It was the same as it was back when Street Fighter 2 came out. Unlike with RPGs, Halo, Sims etc.

Couldn’t you say that about other game genres though? FPS is still point and shoot, just with better graphics and a different setting.

But anyway, wouldn’t you say that VOOT was an evolution of the fighting game genre? It just is so niche no-one even mentions it.

I think he got his ass kicked one to many times.

Im not kidding, most people that say that arent good enough to actually beat anyone so they just go, well it sucks anyway.

Fact of the matter is people hate losing, and for alot of people, they dont want to spend time actually learning the game, they just want to do something and win. Thats why DOA is so popular.

Wow I wasn’t even aware I had to learn anything to play fighters. All I have to do is “bash around” and I’ll stand a chance against ANYONE. Awesome.

These people that say this stuff just fucking suck. Ask them to play for money since fighters are so easy. They won’t. Because they suck and would rather put the games down than to learn them.

LOL @ fighting games being the easiest to make. Other genres have a lot more slack developers can get by with. One little glitch will fuck up a fighter for good. Not to mention us fighting game nerds won’t stop bitching at developers that make the fighters lol. I’d be on suicide watch if I was a fighting game developer.

How the hell do you “evolve” fighting games? I could say the same thing about FPS. You still shoot stuff no matter what game you play.

Now his whole arguement is about me making a typo in a single word. Totally ignoring all my points.

Meh, the guy just doesn’t know anything about fighting games, and it seems like he has no plans to seriously try any out. There’s no way to win an argument with someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about and doesn’t want to learn. I’ve had friends who think the same way he does, but if I get them to sit down with me to just half an hour of a fighting game, they always come away with an appreciation of how difficult and complex the good games in the genre are. This guy plainly won’t do that, so whatever. Who cares if he’s entirely wrong, it’s no sweat off my back.

How has any genre evolved since, say, NES times?

Graphics are moot, since every genre gets updated graphics, and if you just update graphics, its still the same exact game, just looks different.

RPGs I can think of nothing major. Some new status effects. New ways for exp to work or to get stronger. Changes to the user interface to make things easier to understand(ie stats more easilly viewable).

FPS gets what, new guns? Hitting a certain part of a character makes them take more damage?

Sports get more ways to customize your team.

Music games weren’t around long to my knowledge, but they haven’t evolved at all either.

Fighting games get new systems and move properties, and a whole bunch of single player modes.

RTS Gather resources/make army/attack. Pretty much the same as Fighting games in terms of evolvement. Improved resource gathering, new attack/armor properties.

Its to the point where its now you need to either make a new genre(unlikely) or find a new way to combine current genres to make a new game. Its mostly taking rpg elements into other games, ie warcraft 3 using rpg elements to make heros, sports games using rpg elements to give players stat growth through a season, ect. The tekken 5 cards add rpg elements to fighting games, they just don’t have any effect on gameplay as they are all presentation. RPG elements are usually popular. Almost everyone likes to see their skill/weapon/character get stronger, or to try to win with the weakest possable. For anyone who’s played the Ratchet and Clank series, look at all the RPG elements added/enlarged between the first and third?

And one question regarding genres. Can anyone tell me why Zelda is an RPG but Ratchet and Clank is a platformer?

If someone doesn’t look deeply into any genre they will fail to see the changes. Of course theres changes to fighters just like there are changes to FPS, RPG’s blah, blah, blah. It takes a fan of these games generally to realize the changes but they are there.

Like I can tell you lots of changes between UT, and UT2k4. HL and HL2 but to some people it still simply means point and shoot.

What a lot of game players want more than anything is freedom. My sister, an idiot, says the reason fighting games suck, namely 2D fighters, is because your movements are restricted to a linear 2D plane. Hence why fighting games like DOA and MKD are more successful, much to the dismay of lacking any real depth in the fighting engine.

Under that criteria, the only genres I can think of that truly have “evolved” and evolved for the better are stealth and action. Play all three Splinter Cells and you’ll see what I mean.

Unfortunately the majority out there probably think like bludwid. These kind of people don’t want to think when they play a game; they just want to sit down and be sucked into the game story and graphics and let their brain melt.

In this ADD generation, finding people who are patient and dedicated enough to figure out the essential strategies of a competitive game and analyzing why they lose are getting rarer indeed.

In defense of the ADD generation and to slander it at the same time. Taking video games lightly is a good thing; however it’s not like they’re spending their valuable time wisely in the first place.

Idiot, you can spell, you just can’t read. Look at my post. I wasn’t making fun of your spelling.

One of the coolest things is story mode for 1P fighting- CPU (all the time on the console, since none of my friends play fighters seriously).

Project Justice and GG went the extra mile in character development, story paths, etc. :tup:

Really?
Whos Better Than JUstin In Marvel

Anyone who says that fighting games havnt evolved since Street Fighter 2 and that it all the gameply that is involved is simple button bashing is a ignorant moron.

The fact is, fighting games, wether they are 2D or 3d, is one of the hardest game genres to master, and esicialy today ,for new comers to learn the flow of gameplay.

One thing i have noticed is when a noob first tries a fighitng game they either resort to simple button bashing or simply abusing special moves. It appears the mainstream gamer has no understanding of how to play fighting games. My opinion is that companies should do what virtua fighter 4 evo did, come with alot of match video’s to “educate” people who are new to this. When i show some of my friends match videos of high tournement japenese players playing alpha 3 or 3rd strike, they are simply amazed and even sometimes get pumped up to play the games they used to call “boring and simple”.

As another person said before, fighting games require alot of time,practice and competition for a person to improve his skills. And today, most young people dont want to invest in that time and prefer something easy to learn like halo, were you can have a lan party and batle many people. I guess that sadly is they way it is today and will be very hard to change, espicially since most mainstream gamers are informed by mainstream media who unfortunately know fvck all about the fighting games “culture”.

I also think most magazines are to blame the bad opinion fighting games(mainly 2d) get in regards to mainsream gamers.
After picking up the latest issue of the australian magazine “Play” the reviewer complains that a button bashing christie is overpowered and Jinpachi is too hard.
The reviewer gives the game a score of 91% which is a pretty fair and accurate score, but i notice that he also compares it with the horrible DOA 2 - which was also awarded a score of 91%.

Another australian magazine, i think it was the official PS2 magazine also stated that button bashing characters like christie were sometimes overpowering and cheap. That magazine also a stupid quote when talking about soul Calibure 3, by saying something like “Tekken games are easy, even your grandmother can easily beat you by doing cheap 10 hit dial combos on you” and that “Soul Calibur 2 was a true gentlemans game unlike tekken”…

If we are to go a few years back, the Dreamcast magazine from the UK would give legendary games such as SF:3rd Strike scores of 70% with idiotic comments like “if you are looking for another no frills street fighter game, then this is it” or " oh sigh, another 2d fighter".
The same magazine gave another great game like Last Blade 2 a score of 39% because according to them it looks worse then Street Fighter 3 on the SNES!!! Did you hear that? Street Fighter 3 on the snes lol!

Basically my point is, i dont think people from mainstream media and magazines should review fighting games unless they no the “culture” and actually no the most important part of the game eg the fighting engine - not the graphics etc.
I find that these mainstream reviewers are very misleading for people who are not really into fighting games, and also that these reviewers are also to be blamed to as why fighting games are not doing that great in the mainstream today/

One final note, the reviewers who bash the tekken games praise up the Virtua Fighter games as being deep, original and balanced, which is 100% true. But in saying that it makes you wonder since these morons can somehow play such a deep game as VF and still cant beat a button bashing noob using christie. Sometimes i think game reviews dont play VF, they just take the word of other reviewers opinion that its such a great game.

The problem with reviewers is that their given all of a week, if even that, to review the game. There’s not one among us who has learned everything about our game of choice (or games) in a week, and we cant expect the same of them. Fighting game reviews are skewed because the reviewers are forced to rate it on the same system that they use for other genres, which simply cannot work.