Not all tournaments follow the same rules, and Evo has not made a final decision on legacy support on SF V (even then most tournaments do not have to follow Evo’s examples).
They went as far as pulling the article that states that Legacy support is banned without so much as posting a correction or update.
But enough about SRK politics, lets focus on the meat of the issue.
There is no blanket Legacy driver ban in the larger FGC, just individual tournaments with their own views of what is best for themselves at the time.
With Street Fighter 5 gets further patches this may or may not change.
For the list of what controllers are compatible check ed1371’s Thread on the topic
At the time of writing I don’t see issues with SF 5 and legacy support per say, but it takes some effort to register a PS3 stick on SF 5. The SF v version of the driver not as streamlined as Skull Girls on the PS4.
As legacy support is just an additional driver and not a conversion process, legacy support should not incur any additional latency.
The sure bet is to use native controllers any ways for hassle free, reliable game play.
I really have to ask this…
But does it REALLY make that much of a difference, so long as it’s somewhere under 16ms (1 frame in a 60fps game)?
I suppose if you factor in a TV and such.
I ask because I have a TES+ and I felt no difference switching between PS3 and PS4 mode on a PS3, despite there being a 6ms difference.
I’m just curious why this matters so much. I do find it interesting, but I still don’t know how useful this is.
You are not going to feel 6ms, throw those worries away. If it were 2 frames you would probably notice a difference. You can even adjust to that, but going back and forth can be disconcerting.
Think of this thread as informational and not something to get too worked up about. If you noticed something weird swapping between two sticks, maybe this can help explain why. Or if you have a setup upstairs with a TV that lags 2 frames, and a stick that lags 2 frames, this can help explain why it felt like playing in molasses compared to the speedy downstairs setup (maybe you can swap those sticks and they’d feel close to the same). Or if you are doing a 60fps camera lag test for a particular game, this info could be quite helpful, especially if more than one person is testing and you are getting different results.
This sounds about right… Because I have a few sticks: Mad Catz TES+, Qanba Q4RAF 2011, Qabna Q1, and Hori RAP 3… And I can’t notice any difference on any of them. Sometimes the RAP 3 feels off though, but that’s rated F+. I also haven’t used that stick in years.
So anyway, I really do appreciate this thread. I just can’t say how useful I think it is. You’ve outlined exactly where it would be though.
I have another question though:
I thought the Brook adapters were supposed to be amazing… But they have pretty shoddy results. These lag times MUST be noticable though, right?
It’s under a frame. Most people would not notice it, unless that extra 14 or so ms pushed their accumulated delay time such that more inputs fall on a later frame. I would still use one.
Those boards do what others can’t at this time, and the input delay is not enough to worry about, given the features you are getting. Plus these sorts of boards are firmware upgradable, and we’ve seen input delay improved via updates before.
I wonder if it would be possible to create an external antenna. I’ve no idea where the antenna is on the ds4, i know the chip is under the metal square, perhaps that metal square is the antenna?
You’re not going to feel 6ms. A frame’s probably noticeable if you pay attention. You play GGXrd, use the training mode’s lag simulator to get a feel for how extra lag feels. PC Training mode + 3f lag = console Xrd. That difference is certainly incredible, coming from console to PC. Everything just feels unnaturally sharp and smooth.
About the PC thing? If you want to play competitively get used to how the game plays on consoles.
I disagree that PC version is the superior lag free version of the game. Then again the Display’s input lag, the lag of your TV or Monitor needs to be factored in.
Even if the PC version of a game has the least input lag among the versions, though probably requiring you to use G-Sync/FreeSync or simply to keep V-Sync off in order to achieve it, it’s the console versions that ultimately count in tournament situations.
So, I’ve been working on various things to see if I could contribute to the input lag discussion. The project that I’m presenting here is my most recent attempt, and am posting here mainly to get feedback.
This time, the setup is fairly simple. I have a external button connected to an arduino. When the button is pushed, it sends out a signal (connected to your stick of choice that will activate the button). Simultaneously it lights up a set of LEDs one at a time, one frame at a time. These are colour coded green --> yellow --> orange --> red. Then I captured with my canon at 60fps. Reviewing the footage is easier, as you can simply read the number of LEDs lit up, giving you how many frames since the button was fired.
Also, the television is the Playstation monitor, noted to have ~two frames of input lag. I’ve got a faster Asus monitor however the concept of being able to just subtract two frames is an attactive one. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-playstation-3d-display-review "we measured exactly two frames of lag when both 720p and 1080p content was being feed to the screen, translating into a “real world” 33ms response time. "
This method works well for arcade sticks, as you can feed header pins into the connectors without affecting the joystick otherwise.
It doesn’t work particularly well for things like the Wii controller, as I’m not willing to open this up. It would work fine for the PS360+ and Brooks UFB as they have easy access for header pin to be soldered on. I plan to do this next at some point.
I have a solution involving washers whereby the pressing of button on the pad also acts as the activation signal for the script. This does tend then to be a frame faster than the above method, and I still need to improve the consistency.
Anyway, the results that I got was that the Pokken controller would cause a change on the screen with 7 LEDs lit with little variation, and the Tekken Tag Wii U stick would cause a change with 8 LEDs lit, with quite a bit of variation. Remembering that the first LED is lit at the same time as the button is turned on, and subtracting two frames for the monitor, this should equate to 64 and 80msec (right?)*
Code for the arduino is below (just the loop segment, where the important stuff is happening.)
void loop() {
if(digitalRead(24)==0)
{
if (micros()>(time1+F))
{time1=micros();digitalWrite(22,LOW);
if (n<14)
{digitalWrite((49-2*n),HIGH);
tft.setCursor(15*n,0);tft.print(n);
n++;}}}
if (digitalRead(24)==1)
{digitalWrite(22,HIGH);n=0;
for (j=0;j<14;j++)
{digitalWrite((23+2*j),LOW);}
tft.fillRect(0,0,240,30,ILI9341_BLUE);
time1=micros();
}
}
edited to change values acknowledging that the first LED is lit at the same time as the button is pressed (give or take a small amount) not after a frame.
Pretty good setup. Only problem is the slight sync issues you’d have between the display and camera since it would be next to impossible to sync them frame perfect. Should be able to get a good idea with enough averages to smooth that asynchronous timing out.
A great way to test would be to hook these up to an undamned converter connected to a cps2 game in the button check menu, which is as good as it gets for input latency. No need to watch for animation start ups, just look for the button changing the icon on the screen.
After trying a few things, I wonder whether this could be useful.
PS4 with PS4 camera attached, broadcasting (at best quality for what it’s worth). El Gato HD 60 Pro capturing the screen. (Stream is almost certainly only 30fps, but the screen and the camera feed are both 60fps by the look of things).
Should allow for comparisons of different PS4 games input lag as well as some comparison to see if different joysticks respond at different speeds.
Will try out various games and sticks shortly to see how the method goes.
Should fix the problems of difficulty in syncing game + camera.
Quick test to see how much the PS4 Camera lags behind. Looks like about 6-7F as per the below series (Jab appears 8-9F later, minus 2F for the PS3D Monitor lag.
