77

Well yeah… I can do that. But I’d like it if they didn’t scoff every time they have to use the stick and blame their losses on it. We usually have two controllers set up, one stick, one pad. Since we take turns and I’m not always playing, they inevitably have to use the “crappy controller”.

That’s why I wanted to find a way to help them appreciate the stick.

78

To be honest, I don’t think SF4 requires a stick. The game isn’t THAT technical. FADC and other advanced stuff isn’t hard on a pad, at least not for me.

I can play on pad for hours and I don’t get calluses. I guess after years of playing on pad my thumbs just sort of glide over the pad and they never get sore.

Actually I would say it’s harder to get good on the pad then it is a stick, since you have more control with the stick, but once you master both there isn’t much of a difference.

Games like the Bleach DS series are proof that you can still be super techincal on a pad as long as you are dedicated.

79

Sounds to me like the problem stems more from the fact that you’re repeatedly beating down your brother, not that his playing on pad is limiting him from improving.

Whenever we get a bunch of people together to play fighters, there are definitely obvious gaps in skill. The best players will hand off their spot after they’ve beaten the entire room, play characters that they don’t main, or will take themselves out of the rotation completely and instead just comment on the matches and give advice. People improve and get encouraged when they play people of a similar skill level or have close matches. Losing repeatedly is understandably pretty discouraging for most.

If you can’t get a regular group of people together and it’s just you and your brother, then focus on giving him advice as you’re playing on how he should be punishing you, how to get out of certain situations, etc. Helping him improve in matchup knowledge and understanding the game’s system is more important than trying to convince him to switch to stick. This is what my brother and I do, since we play each other a lot, and he’s had no trouble with playing pad against me on a joystick in games like SF4, SC4, and GG:AC.

A lot of my friends have become interested in stick because I’ve shown them how easy it is to play a charge character on one or fun things like piano’ing inputs, but the majority stick to pad because that’s what they have available to them to practice on. That’s not to say that they aren’t interested in improving; they’ll soak up advice about how to play their character or ask tons of questions about certain in-game situations that they have trouble with and then start applying this knowledge pretty damn quickly.

So direct your energy at helping your group of players improve in terms of system/match-up knowledge and giving advice, not trying to proselytize them to the “way of the stick.” :stuck_out_tongue:

80

This man speaks the truth. If you’re always going all out against severely worst players then you have to dumb down your game for them otherwise all they are going to do is mash out until something happens.

Break your game down a bit. If they are novices, don’t use mind games or special moves (or only specials as reversals). Don’t go for supers or ultras. As they get better, incorporate more techs and just stay ahead of them. Sooner or later they will get good enough with encouragement that they do go on to a competent level.

When I practiced martial arts in real life, this is what I had to do for newbies. I’d dumb my game down and intentionally fall for things I normally would not have.

What this does is encourage people to continue to get better rather than discouraging people and they quit.

I see things this way, if you encourage people to get better then the quality of games and opponents increase. If you continue to discourage people then you shrink the number of contestants and you end up only with a small select of people with the same styles of play and competition stagnates.

81

Thanks for the great response ExMachina.

82

beat the hell out of them, show them how mighty stick players are! sticks are the true warrior’s weapon…

83

Well that’s more of a problem of the 360 than anything else. The 360 makes it difficult to switch in and out different types of controllers. You can’t force people to use what they’re not accustomed to. Especially when it’s something that will immediately make them worse at the game than they already are.

84

I’ve heard a lot of talk about how Tekken is really easy with a pad so there isn’t a real need for a stick. Can anyone more knowledgeable, comment?

I don’t know if it’s just me that thinks this way. but I find that if they don’t have the drive to actually get better and succeed then why waste so much effort trying to get them to change? Babying them kind of bothers me as an approach even though I see it as somewhat effective.

Weird thing is, I remember doing this exact thing, but the person just didn’t seem interested at all in the technical aspects of the game.

85

what i did is just let a few of my friends play on one of my sticks for a few days and they want one of there own.

they were reluctant becuase its change. a good portion of players grew up on snes and ps dpads so they see this huge “controller” with a huge stick and they are like fuck that.

best thing to do is try and get guys in your town intrested in playing have get togeathers but dont just rape them just play to their level get them hooked then start showing the guys that you think can handle getting beat all night by you how to really play but do it in a way that they understand and dont get frustrated. things ive been doing lately are

  1. being less cocky
  2. being informative
  3. letting people get victorys on me that would never happen. like giving a dog a bone.

see if you want to build a community you have to have players that can take a loss. without that you will just have bad blood and that shit needs to be saved for halo.

~Dpain tha Rambler

86

put a vagina on it.

87

Looks like you became ‘that guy’.

The one who wanted to step up their game just a bit, who wanted to delve into matters more then you’re accustomed to, who just wanted to take things a bit more seriously.

Now you’re winning more and you’ve pretty much alienated yourself from your usual group of friends who don’t want to put a little more devotion into this hobby.

Here’s what you do:

  1. Stop playing with these people. Make sure you read that correctly. I didn’t say stop hanging out with them, just stop playing with them. You’re at the point where you want to get more out of the game and they’re not willing to put more into it.

  2. Find other people (AVAILABLE HERE ON SRK) to play against and start finding out what makes this hobby of ours so addictive and enjoyable.

  3. PROFIT~

88

What’s with choices? I play both, and I do just fine.

89

Sometimes it’s better to just grab your joystick play with yourself rather than fool around with someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing. If they have no experience, you’ll just end up bored, frustrated, and ultimately unsatisfied.

90

Yeah, I’m always up for playing anyone from SRK. I just like to play people in person sometimes too. That’s why I still play with him. Well, that and he’s my brother so I can’t really avoid him.

91

Tekken is actually mad easy on the pad. People just have their two index fingers on 4 buttons and do just fine. Hell, I even play it on the pad sometimes (when I’m too lazy to get out my arcade stick) and I’m dedicated stick user.

92

I’ll try to do this and be as much factual as I can.
I played veriety of methods.

Sticks(American neogeo mvs 4 button):
+easiest DP
+easier to do qcf/hcf
+easier to do direction+single button
+easier to go back to neutral
+easier tigerknee
+faster 360
+faster drumming
-harder to swich b from d/b position
-harder to learn
-handcramps caused by button being far apart(A B C D types); all button press is hardest

Sticks(6 button cps2 style HAPP)
+loose and comfortable grip
+easiest on d,uf"tiger knee" type moves
+easier to go on neutral position
+easiest DP
+fastest 360
+fastest drumming(quick button presses in succession i.e. A then B then C then D)
+slightly tilted surface is the most comfortable on wrist
-hardest to do double direction type moves(i.e dash)
-harder to learn
-most of American 2-player setup requires players to play on slightly tilted angle at 30 or 150 degrees; requires players to adjust qcf/hcf/tk types

Sticks(Atmoswave + Meltyblood)
+Fastest mashing
+Easier button access
~the most sensitive directional input allows complex air movements, but will hinder ground inputs with jump cancels
-Hardest to go neutral; letting go of directional control does not allow neutral position, instead stick must manually be centered
-Default configuration is rare so arcades usually come up with their interpretion of configurations
-THE hardest to learn. ANY pad/keyboard MB player will tell you that transition of PC to arcade MB was not easy.

Sticks(home 8 button style custom)
+Easiest to mash/all button press; buttons are closest
+versatility; bad designs can be easily adjusted.
-harder qcf/hcf type moves
-harder to do double direction type move(slower).
-not as sturdy as arcade; stick itself is hard to keep in place, causing errors in input
-cost
-compatibility issues; may cause additional lag.

Pad(8 button ps2)
+Easiest and most accurate to go to neutral position
+Flexible playing position
+Cheaper cost
+Easier tigerknee
+easier to begin
+No input lag
+More button means more rooms to map moves
~Faster 360 at cost of lower accuracy(analog).
-Slowest 360 and lower accuracy caused by plastic cover between “buttons”(it’s actually a single giant button)(+ pad)
-Double direction type is not as accurate
-hardest f hcf type moves, especially on SNK games
-Hardest to do multiple button inputs and Mash
-Less accurate shoulder buttons

Pad(Xbox/Xbox 360)
+Compatible to computer games
+No Input lag, Wireless
+cheaper
+easier to begin
-hardest double direction moves
-hardest f hcf type inputs, especially SNK games
-less accurate shoulder buttons
-Slowest to mash/multiple button press
-slower 360

Pad(6 button Saturn/genesis/PC Pad type)
+easier to do HP/HK
+easier tigerknee
+easiest to go to neutral
+smallest and lightest design
+easier DP
+THE easiest to learn
-hardest f hcf type moves
-hardest double direction moves
-harder to do multiple button press at the same time
-will require converter; converters may cause lag

Keyboard
+best accuracy and speed on charge moves
+easiest to do double direction
+easiest iad
+easiest drumming
+easiest mashing
+easiest multi buttons at same time
+easiest jump cancel
+easier f hcf
+easier qcf/hcf
-Hardest DP
-Harder reactional airgrab
-Hardest 360
-1~2 frame lags are common
-most difficult to adjust when moving to different type of controller

Those are of course based on my own performances.
If the game doesn’t have a 360 or pretzel, IMO keyboard is the most ideal one.

93

Movements such as stepping/evading and BDC etc. are easier to perform on a PS2 pad since there is much slimmer chance to unintentionally hold d-pad in certain direction compared to stick which would cause jumping/ducking/etc. and it comes back to neutral very quickly. On the other hand, throw-breaking, multi-button inputs, diagonals, advance movements and commands like HCF, HCB or f,HCF are easier due to precision of stick.

But it also depends upon characters, some are easier to play on pad while others require stick for more precision.

94

How do you get someone to appreciate a stick?

Answer : Use it right.

95

Awesome, thanks for the answers.

Also, fatalfuryD hit the nail on the head perfectly. Attacking in neutral has always been a pain for me in some games with a stick. I thought you had to let go slightly. The rest of the post is sooo accurate as well.:looney:

96

well, tekken is as mentioned before real easy on a pad but i really think sticks are better for sf…
that being said, just keep beating them and eventually theyll come around - or not