@Hoofedkibbles
I just don’t seem any use tho, why risk having a low life character if you are supposedly supposed to save meter. I rather just pick a better anchor with a normal life and be able to use meter when ever i need to. I am glad you are trying to make Phoenix work and that’s character loyalty. but with this game. i just don’t find a purpose to keep her anymore. The odds for MvC3 was 50/50 to her becoming Dark, now its like a 10-15% chance which i don’t find is worth it.
Plus with Phoenix i just can’t seem to call her out as an assist except mid combo which is fine but isn’t that eliminating my options with her? would my time not benefit more if I have a better assist and anchor like Sent, Doom, Trish etc.
I just don’t understand how am i supposed to use meter to kill but still be able to have enough meter for Phoenix to become dark if i can’t even get enough meter even without using them and still getting combo’s on my opponent to gain meter.
If its a must then sure i would use x-fac to keep Phoenix alive to get enough meter but even that is still way too much of a risk for her to be played competitively.
She has a very long TK Trap loop from X-Factor level 2 and 3 that builds a ton of meter. It’s not hard to get to level five, and it’s not hard to get a touch of death combo with Dark Phoenix that doesn’t involve X-Factor. Has the risk of Phoenix dying increased? Absolutely. Is she useless? No. She just requires you to know her inside and out. As stupid as this sounds, throw her up front every once and a while. It’s a very good learning experience.
although i’d never base my game off exchange… its pretty strong against phoenix when you have chars who have strong counters to her when they have meter (ammy magneto doom especially vergil)
I’ll be the first to admit that I get… salty… when I do save up the meter and work so hard to get DP, only to have her killed off from ONE random hyper or just ONE misstep that leaves her open. I mainly play Ammy/DPool/ Phoenix, so I don’t rely on assist much outside of combos. But that’s just how I play.
To answer your question as to why anyone should want to play her… In vanilla, people played her because she was the best character in the game and you didn’t necessarily have to be good with her to get the KO. Now she is almost a specialized, acquired taste. When you know her and know how to play her then it just clicks with you. Also, keep in mind that I am not, nor do I ever aspire to be a great tourney player. I’m casual and intend on staying that way. My nerves wouldn’t be able to handle the tourney scene. Right now my win/loss is like 165/130 so, yeah, not going to win EVO.
But if you want the easier win then I’d say go with Vergil, Wesk, Spencer or Taskmaster. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with picking a better character if new Phoenix doesn’t tickle your fancy. You should just see me playing with Thor (again, because I love the character). It’s just… sad.
lol yea i see what your saying. Me i am a tourney player so i always at the locals and sometimes at the majors ( first EVO for me in 2012 ).
I run a Wesker, Trish, Sentinel Team atm but in Vanilla I ran a Wesker/Trish/ Akuma or Phoenix team
If i was to use Phoenix right now, which i do for fun in casuals i run a very simple basic Ghost Rider/ Wesker/ Phoenix
That’s what resets are for. You gotta have your team be reset heavy and be able to kill your opponent without using meter. You can simply NOT use meter and reset into another half life combo.
This has been THE INVINCIBLE SWORDSMAN saying:
No disrespect, but you’re not saying anything that wasn’t said when Jean was first announced. I’ll admit that the nerfs + the system changes have lessened her ability to dominate. However, she’s STILL the best offensive character in the game and one of the best characters overall imo. Still top tier.
Just to add… I think Trish is a fantastic character that I rarely use. She wouldn’t be a bad sub for Phoenix in a pinch. Being a fanboy and playing Phoenix from day one through present, I have to agree with Swordsman though. Phoenix is still top tier. Just in a different way than she was before.
Very true on she is still top teir but just getting her dark is different.
I just feel what made her top tier was how easy it was to get her dark in Vanilla. Dark Phoenix is still nothing to take easy in Ultimate and holy crap she is still strong as ever but getting to her is a lot harder then in Vanilla.
Going for resets is actually something i was going to mention on how to get the meter and still kill but dam when i do, i feel i am no longer playing for Phoenix.
I just think that the Phoenix mind games and snap backs to get Phoenix in before 5 meters is totally gone now which upsets me now cause she brought something to change the way the match was played without even being in the match
She still changes the way the game plays. Just a way out was developed for the players who didn’t want to deal with DarkPhoenix all the time.
With the new hit stun, shouldn’t Phoenix be able to do 50/50 mix up now?
i think if you go in and do the crossup with fireball and save hte meter with the thing and do it all then you gotta put together a real solid gameplay nawwhamisayin its just a thing you gotta do
I have to admit that I was so wrong. I still don’t agree with the health nerf but she is still a good character. Now that I’ve become better (and for from her 100% potential) with her she is quite capable even without Dark Phoenix. Even when Phoenix is pretty easy to kill, her capacity for mixups, combo potential and the great damage from Phoenix Inferno, she is a force to be feared. I am happy with the overall balance in this game. Characters I still feel are very powerful are Wesker and Hulk but is not that big of a deal.
im very happy with the changes made. i commend capcom for an excellent balancing job, they saved the character. since now there are so many people saying she is too difficult to use viably, people lose the right to cry about losing to her. its more challenging to play her, and more rewarding to win.
tk shot spam is still there. i personally thought tk shot H saving your ass from a death combo was too nice a gift, so i agree with having them disappear once phoenix is hit. its not like they dont save you anymore, either, just not as often. tk traps disappearing kinda hurt a little more, but i can agree with that, too.
invincibility frames removed on phoenix rage isnt too bad. you still get invincible startup, and paired with that enormous hitbox and priority, youre still almost invincible.
regular phoenix gets a much easier ground bounce now that tk overdrive M (which has some pretty good priority, too) has smaller knockback.
i really dont see why anyone would be so upset about her changes after playing umvc3. i know it looks really bad on paper, but youll see it really isnt. shes still very powerful. its like being upset about not being allowed to use hacks… is the game even fun in godmode? no, its not. they gave phoenix life.
@ the new anti-phoenix tech, i posted in the thread. i dont think its so detrimental to her game. keep in mind they need to activate x-factor to use this trick.
People still cry about her and call you cheap and such when you win with her. It’s just the nature of Phoenix now. If you play her, get used to pre-match teabag, teabag if they kill her (whether that is your last character or not) and salty messages. That has been my experience anyway. She would have to be rendered completely useless to satisfy the Phoenix haters.
Okay, so, after reading up on some of the latest anti-Phoenix transformation shenanigans, I have revised my opinion. She is sorely in need of a buff. Where do you guys think we should start?
The only thing they should do is change stealing meter from side exchange, at least with the exchange-xfc-exchange glitch. Other than that, I’m not sure what other anti-Phoenix stategies are guaranteed. If it is a carefully setup strategy that they actually work for then i’m not opposed to them having a way to kill my Phoenix. Work should be rewarded, which is why I play her. I work to get my meter and you still have to work to keep that glass cannon thumping.
IF they were to buff her, I would like traps and salty balls to not disappear when she is hit. It would the only thing keeping her 375k health safe from combo-death-guarantee. It’s not like the “homing” ball actually tracks anymore anyway.
That’s hardly a glitch. Exploit, quite possibly, but not a glitch. X-factor can cancel anything, and the TAC counter lockout is obviously intended(if there wasn’t a 15 frame lock out you could just spin the stick 360 and mash on S and always break out). Morrigan’s double TAC is a lot more likely to be a bug than the X-factor trick.
As far as buffs? She needs to go back to at least 420k health(preferably 600k for Jean, leave Dark Phoenix at 420k, or even 375k), and Traps along with L and M Shots, at the very least, need to persist after she’s hit. Faster flight start up and slightly better duration would also be quite welcome. Change the recovery on air TK shots back to what it was in vanilla, but limit her to a single H Shot active at a time. Giver her her c.M slide distance back. In all likelihood you could reverse every direct nerf the character sustained and still find her to be fair given the new system mechanics.
As Noone said, the exploits, both XF cancel TAC and Morrigan TAC fireball-flight explote. If they were killed then most of the problems Phoenix had would be gone. The only time I see the explote used is only on a Phoenix, no one else. Besides you should only be allowed one chance to use TAC per launch. The guide even says once per air combo.
I actully like how Phoenix is now. But I’d buff say the air TK shot then grounded, that crap has got to go. She can’t even defend her self with anything after that other then Phoenix Rage and XF. Maybe add frames to the transformation burst. Everything else I don’t have a problem with. Even her health.
Think about it for a sec. Her health is 375k if her health was brough up higher then most of the crap She-Hulk and Frank use for the anti setups would stick. Most of the time now its situational or a specific team is needed to KO her in one shot. Nemesis too can get her easily with 4 hits, hit XF then tenticle grab and pluck her out of the air right after her transformation. Then theres X-23. No mattter how much life you give her or how much you take away, someone in the cast is gonna KO her somehow and keep DP under wraps. A life buff doesn’t seem to be the answer. Her defense needs to be improved somehow. Hoofedkibbles is on the right track. But her traps need to stay longer but need to disappear when she is hit. If not then its a repeat of Vanilla.
TK overdrive H should have more hits added to absorb more incoming projectiles and a fewer frames of start up but not as fast as TK L or M. Also her Phoenix Rage hyper should cover where ever the fire of the Phoenix is at. Letting characters be able to crouch under isn’t fair. Phoenix already has low health and small damage out put, why not give her an advantage in her hypers since hypers are harder to build, and Phoenix can’t build that much hyper quickly anyways.
Dark Phoenix is already, well what can I say, don’t want her nerfed nor buffed. Fine the way she is. Though what ever buffs Phoenix gets Dark Phoenix will get.