Don’t quote me, but I remember it being said several times on here that the sentinel nerf was planned beforehand anyways, they just didn’t get to it right away.
I have no idea if it’s true of course, but it seems relevant.
to xes: it is bad design, and it is happening.
I want to emphasize the bolded paragraph. Games have skill gaps.
“False forced choice” was actually presented, buddy. The fact that it is bad engineering is irrelevant to the point shoultz made: scrubs (and yes, this forum as well as Capcom-Unity are scrub-laden) chose the latter option.
I believe adamantly that the company should focus on making a more interesting product rather than something less-involving.
(To the bolded) And herein lies the problem. The fact that people who don’t take the game seriously have more influence on the design of the game than people that do actually care and will continue playing is troublesome. If a low-level player can’t deal with a tactic (say for example throws in ST, or low-mid chains in SC), the tactic isn’t inherently unfair, and it doesn’t need to be changed. We can let people who actually analyze the game decide this.
I knew a dude who sucked ass at DMC tell me that the griffon’s and nightmare’s attacks are unavoidable despite the fact that it is very possible to beat them without taking any damage. Would you be in favor of Capcom “nerfing” these bosses? Think about it; would the game be as fun/challenging? I also had a friend tell me “cornering was cheap” in FG’s. Should they take the edges of the stage out? No, dude. Deal with it; you got your ass kicked. I don’t want to play a boring game.
I can say much more concerning this, but I gotta leave work.
was it @ the same time they said the net code was the speed of light?
pro tip, Capom likes to lie about shit so they can save face or increase their sales. Prior to sentinel getting patched, there was a massive thread on capcomunity complaining about the character. Then magically he’s nerfed on life? yea, that was a cry baby patch.
I’ve heard Ono say several times, they want games to be unbalanced on purpose. Yet, they release balances patches every 1-2 years for their games? wtf? can you honestly trust anything flying out of their mouth when their main goal is to get in your wallet than create a good game?
Just so you know, you will use a respectful tone when involved in a discussion with me, or I will no longer reply. Understood?
There are many ways to deal with low level players who feel a game is unfair. It could be the matchmaking, it could be the tutorials, it could be gameplay feedback, or it could be balance. Saying that consumer complaints should not be addressed at all is saying that you don’t really care if you have a business or not.
lmao repugnant nerd spotted
well I put that in the post that I didn’t know if it was true, it was just relevant and it could be.
Ono says all kinds of crazy things though, we know that. I’ve said a lot that I think these people are totally full of shit (especially Capcom).
That being said, again, we have absolutely no idea of the process behind their balance patches. Just like we have no idea what SF4 or MvC3 will be like in 20 years (although my guess is that nobody will be playing them)
I believe the logic was that typically patch certification for Microsoft takes around a month, so it’s unlikely that a patch released a month out is responding to release-day complaints.
You’ve gotta realize how arbitrary that makes your position sound.
The simpler game is for some reason not ‘dumbed down’ while the more complex game is?
Just say ‘well they did a good job making ST and did a bad job making MvC3’. It’s still subject to opinion of course, but it’s more directly to the point.
The issue isn’t ‘dumbing down’ it’s the quality of the design
You know, it might help if your arguments were at least objective. Just about everything you say amounts to “I’m a MVC2 fanboy.”
Marvel 3 is not a pick up and play type of game, at least not in the sense that you can pick it up and do well at it.
We understand that you suck at it, but try to come up with a better argument.
On topic: Fighting games are fine. If they were actually listening to scrubs, there would be no zoning, combos, assists, etc. Yes, the Sentinel nerf was unnecessary. Let’s move on. Most of the old men in here (Shoultzula, TMG, etc.) are whining more than the supposed scrubs that they like to talk down about.
Of course you can. Why do you think Street Fighter 2 was such a massive success?
Nobody really answered my question from a few days ago the two that tried to answer didn’t answer with a system mechanic just some little trivia.
Well except for the 2 answers you did get.
To go more into detail though, picking out a specific subsystem as ‘easy to use hard to master’ is hard and deceptive. You want to look at a game in its entirety when asking that question.
(Still, zoning and anti-zoning is a good example as is jumping in vs anti-airs)
Which shows that you don’t even understand what ‘basic’ means.
About everyone you know saying mvc3 is ‘dumbed down’, that’s a bit issue, everyone’s saying it because everyone’s saying it. It’s people parroting what they’re supposed to say, which is a lot easier than actually analyzing what a game got right or wrong.
Said this multiple times, but people saying that these new games are ‘dumbed down’ are just showing that they have no idea what they’re talking about.
Get ready…this is the part where you make an ass of yourself.
So, after telling me that I think it’s a mvc2 vs. mvc3 argument, you turn around and confirm that it is, therefore proving my point.
Like I said…come up with something other than “I have MVC3 because I suck at it”. Then your arguments may have a bit more merit.
As you should when it comes to system mechanics in any genre. Do you want old school health in the fps or you want regenerating health? Do you want this mechanic the spot light like time manipulation in Braid and PB Winterbottom?
I played both and umvc3 is definitely a step down from what mvc2 was. I don’t think anyone is denying that if you’ve actually played both games but you don’t play any of them so how the fuck could you know?
magneto lost about 90% of his mixup game from mvc2. storm last more than that. They tweaked a lot of things in umvc3 to make it more casual friendly like turning down the hi\low mixups and the removal of sj auto correct. This is to allow casual audiences a simpler time playing the game and not get blown up by mixups. The damage you get on assists is just flat out bananas. no way in fuck is that even close to mvc2 standards. some characters can literally s, bbcs for over 50% life in mvc2 this was barely 15% life on assists. Dormamu can do s, bbcs, pillar super for like 90% to most helpers. If you tried this shit in mvc2, its not even 50% life. My last point would be the new throw system where characters combo off throws solo rather than through team chemistry in mvc2. Most of the characters in mvc2 couldn’t combo off solo throws even the gods, you needed to use helpers to combo off throws 99% of the time. Now throws have turned the game into a jump, mash throw fest since they’re 1f active and lead to combos. No more timing the shit with assists, no more properly picking your team so you can combo off them properly. Just mash it out.
this is what I mean understanding every little piece to a fighting game. The nuances to umvc3 are kind of fucked. The game overall is decent but some of pieces that make it a game really stand out as flaws and I didn’t talk about XF yet…
“A step down” is different than “dumbed down”. The problem with MvC3, to be frank was in trying to replicate a bizarre 1 in a million freak occurrence like MvC2 and immediately having it match the way that game had developed while at the same time having it conform to modern standards. It was really an impossible project when you look at it. I’m not gonna argue that they didn’t fuck up that game in many ways, but I really think you’re offbase on the ‘whys and hows’.
And seriously, what is wrong with you dude? You can’t have more than 30 seconds of disagreement with somebody before you go to “OMG YOU MUST SUCK AT GAMES!!!” Or is it just some beef you have with me personally ><
It takes a month for a patch get through both Sony and Microsoft’s certification process. Sentinel got nerf a month into vanilla MvC3 release. The time window suggests that the nerf was planned long before people complained about him.
its actually a good thing that shoultz is using detailed examples instead of extrapolating everything to the most “macro” possible talking points
Well seriously, it goes back to the thing I said the other day about ‘knowledge vs understanding’. His complaints, while specific, are more about ways he likes 2 more than 3. It’s pointing out differences yes, but not particularly pointing out how one is ‘dumbed down’. Rather he’s pointing out ways in which he thinks 3 is poorly tuned. He doesn’t even understand the nature of his own complaints.
Again, I’d go to what I said to dreamboi. ST is a few orders of magnitude simpler than MvC3 is, or SF4 (or MvC2 for that matter).
Are you going to step in and argue that ST is ‘dumbed down’ compared to MvC3?
There’s a basic issue with boring down to very specific details (say, damage on assists) because it primarily reflects taste. He doesn’t like how high the damage is on assists, but I am reminded of a number of discussions a while (years) back about how having assists be more at risk added depth because it made you have to be more cautious about when you called them (it was people complaining that removing double snaps dumbed down the game because it made calling them safer). Now I’m absolutely not taking one side or another on that particular discussion, I tend to take engine differences like that as they come (or accept them as taste). The point is that you can take something like that and argue it either way, depending on your predisposition.
Edited addendum: The throw issue is a place that is arguably beyond taste, but I put that up to lack of foresight/bad playtesting. Given how it tends to fuck up the game without favoring any particular skill level, it reads like a mistake (or as I said, poor tuning)
“Dumbed down” arguments are essentially FG fogeyism. “I don’t like how these games have changed and this is a way to describe it that makes me seem better and OG!”
jesus christ