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How in the world will that matter if they don’t understand how to play the game ?Number one reason why people struggle to get good into fighting games is that they don’t understand how to play them. X-Factor, Easy Input, Gems, etc will never solve this problem. The ones who are winning are usually the top players, and there are no new players to be seen.
We have DOZENS and dozens of games that simplify the inputs. Even hardcore games like KOF13 has made their inputs easier. It’s more than obvious that fighting game have gotten easier for mordern day gamer. There is virtually no fighting game in market that hasn’t gotten easier for casuals.
None of that will that latter if Casual do not understand fighting game lingo, concepts, and the thinking process to be successful.
Did Maximilian bring you here?
Stop making fighting games with the “this needs to appeal to casual gamers” mentality. By now any of the once casual gamer that has gotten into fighting games is no longer casual gamers. They are converts into the fighting game scene and would probably consider themselves hard core. Nobody wants to think of themselves as a casual fighting gamer unless you don’t really like the games available.
SF4 was successful because it appealed to the old school fighting game fans not because it was made for casual gamers. The New school gamers got into it because it reminded them of a game they may have seen or heard of from in years past and because of the hype surrounding it. Everyone has heard of SF in some way shape or form so it’s no surprise it was a hit. SF4 brought a lot of people back into the FGC unfortunately it’s game play was flawed with gimmicky game mechanics making it too complicated (1 frame links) and too simple (some easy inputs are a little too easy) at the same time. It was good for wetting the appetite but it’s time to move on.
I think it’s time to go in the other direction now. Instead of catering to the casual gamer I’d like to see a game made with tournament play in mind from the ground up. A game made not for the “causal gamer” but for true tournament play. It doesn’t have to be difficult to play or have strict timing ect in fact I think it’s all about keeping it simple and fun. But please no over the top 10 to 99 hit combos or easy input comeback mechanics, Just some solid gameplay, something tried and true like SF2 Hyper fighting, SSF2T or even VF with updated graphics, 3D models on a 2D plane. I think SSF2T is a great example of how a fighting game should work, it’s not perfectly balanced and it has its flaws (Remember it was made 20+ years ago and for the arcade with no DLC) but the game play is so good we are still playing it 20 years later and waiting for it’s true successor. For me this has nothing to do with the Art style, the characters, the balance of the game play or the nostalgia but because it is a simple game with solid game play that has stood the test of time. HD Remix was and is a fun game but it was too close to the source material to stand on it’s own, so it’s not a good example of what direction we need to go in but it’s very close in terms of fun and play-ability.
At this point it doesn’t look like Capcom is going in this direction with its cater to the casuals mentality. I think it’s time for a new IP to step up and make this happen. I don’t play SF because I’m so in love with the characters I’m unwilling to look at another game. It’s just that simple yet solid game play that keeps me coming back time after time. Every new game that come out I always give it a try hoping that I will like it but so far nothing (aside from HD Remix) comes even close and that makes me sad =\ I think it’s because every new game maker wants to add that one cool new feature that they think is gonna set this game apart from the rest that eventually ruins the game.
Skull Girls is a good example of what direction Fighting games need to go and I commend them for what they’ve done. It’s just too bad Skull Girls doesn’t appeal to me (not because of the art style or because it’s all girls) because it plays like Marvel and that is not my kind of game. It is however a good start and I hope we continue to see new Fighting game developers go in this direction. I should also mention KOF IIIX because it also caters to the true fans of the series and not the casual gamer. I feel like Capcom has lost it’s vision and direction to the casual gamer or should I say the the almighty $$ =\
So are there any game developers out there that are willing to step up and make a true tournament worthy Fighting game?
Greatest lie Capcom ever told was convincing people SF4 was accessible.
Tutorials were too expensive, better to just say it’s accessible over and over again until people believe it.
Shit, broke ass SNK can run a blog and answer questions/make guides via youtube vids. Capcom? DLC gems to break throws, negate chip damage, auto block is their answer to accessibility.
Don’t bother trying to make the game more accessible. It never works.
Super Smash Bros could be seen as an attempt to make a fighting game that removes the execution barrier completely (and subverts a bunch of other stuff to make a wholly unique game unlike fighters), and that turned out fairly complex.
As did Street Fighter IV with its barrage of option selects and one frame links.
As did Marvel versus Motherfucking Capcom 2, which simplified the control scheme and attempted to remove infinites with the fly screen and dizzies.
All that happens when the inputs become easier/slacker is that the high level stuff becomes more advanced as pro players can abuse the controls more to their will.
I’ve always believed that anything that is added as a crutch for a beginner will only be abused by a better player.
Not really. There are a ton of games that introduced new shit that never got developed further.
AH3’s free air movement, IaMP’s projectile game etc. etc.
It doesn’t play like Marvel. It has a lot of rules imported from it, but doesn’t play like it at all.
the only akward input i can think of is things like guiles ultra and blanks shout of earth and i think Vegas has one to and thats for pad players …for people like me that grew up in arcades playing fatal fury, sf1 and sf2 with stick not so much…
I always figured they put the input short cutts to accommodate pad players for consoles…
It’s also things like small buffers and tight link timing, there’s a lot of things that can be adjusted for the ‘physical dexterity’ aspect of accessibility.
I agree, but I don’t think it’s because of easier inputs. All of those games gave the players a lot of freedom in terms of movement, and exploration of the game engine. If you want to make the game accessible, then you need to go down the path that SSBB and most of the DoA games took. Restrict the players’ movement, and introduce mechanics that make the game one dimensional. Congratz, you have now won over the casuals! The companies need to stop catering to people who just want to button mash for a few hours, and then never touch the game again.
Super Smash was complex in terms of high level play, but at least casuals could still enjoy the series without delving too far into combat system
I think the problem here is that people at low level want to play people at high level and not get stomped, WHICH IS NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.
I go to school and play on a friend’s monitor everyday, there are some serious people, and some casual, when the casuals play sf4 or tekken or sf2ST or anything else, they have a good time, then the rotation goes to one of us, they get bodied, and leave.
I honestly haven’t seen too many fighters that were just too complex for casuals to play.
One of my favorite sayings;
“Games should be about fighting the other player, not fighting systems.”
Most fighting games are like that too, but to different degrees. ANYONE can play SF casually all you have to do is hit a button and an attack comes out! Then you have special moves, then combos, then mix ups etc that add to the learning curve, and the overall strategy.
The degree of the learning curve and how much it affects the game at high level is what determines a game as being accessible or not. Flatten the learning curve and everyone can compete at high level. But then, what’s the point? Think of a game with a flat learning curve like Rock Paper Scissors. Everyone can play it. Give it a tournament and who wins? Sure there’s something to be said about people reading their opponents, but that’s about the only thing keeping a complete random person from winning. So why even bother “practicing” Rock Paper Scissors?
That’s why I think it’s about DEGREES and why it’s ok for some games to be more or less accessible than others. On one end of the spectrum you’ve got maybe Virtua Fighter, then high level Marvel, then Street Fighter, all the way down to Smash, then stuff below that like maybe the Naruto games. The best example I can probably give where new(ish) players can have fun, but there’s also a rich learning curve, is Guilty Gear.
My point is, It would be damn near impossible to get the best of both worlds in one game, so until then, if serious fighting game competition is what you want, you have to practice like everyone else does (and most people don’t have a problem with that if they ACTUALLY care about getting better), AND if having to put in effort and practice to get “good” at a fighting game means it’s less “accessible” then so be it. Personally I think that’s the draw of this genre and trying to change it risks destroying that which makes it fun and unique.
hmm, I guess I could see that, although I would think low level fighters would want to play other low level fighters and not even bother with the veterans. It’s the developers (Capcom in particular) that keep pushing the “even the playing field for low and high level players” agenda, what with all the comeback mechanics and Assist Gems.
This is the future of fighting games [media=youtube]HExAvc1-lz0[/media]
What game developers think
They seem to think that pressing the buttons harder and faster will help them win. So lets make a game that caters to that type of game play “derp”
How to change (fighting) games for the better:
- Get relaxed publishers
- Try to make a good game rather than money
- Have at least one guy in your team who is actually good at (fighting) games
It’s pretty simple actually.
I agree. Technically, any game can be played on a casual or competitive level. The issue at hand however is: is the game in question fun on both levels? If the game in question is SF, then…no. Casuals could enjoy throwing out blows and sweeping each other, but are they gonna play beyond 2 or 3 matches? Sure, if they are willing to learn special moves like your basic fireball, but chances are they are going to look for another game to play because all they literally did was punch and kick.
I think it is entirely possible to get the best of both worlds in one game, developers just need to step up their game design, and NOT change their existing series. Don’t make SF easier for casuals, make an entirely new franchise to appeal to casuals, but also implement a fighting system that fighting fans dive into competitively.
I think that the advanced play will come no matter what though, unless the game is simple to the point of absolute absurdity.
Players develop insane levels of skill out of even the simplest of games. Having stuff be harder to do doesn’t suddenly make the game have a lower skill cap.
Of course Super Turbo is the ultimate expression of this idea. Everything you need to do is easy once you’ve mastered (db),df,db,uf and qcfx2, but skill at the game goes so far beyond that.