Btw Another big reason not to use TAC is that side and down TAC both use up a ground/wall bounce which some characters rely on to continue combos. Btw if you do :df: or :db: to try and counter it always attempts to counter down not sideways and same thing for up, meaning if someone is mashing the least likely counter they will do is side, 2 directions vs 3 directions for up and down. Also most teams are built around a very strong point/assist combination to fight other strong point.assist combo’s so it can be detrimental to lose that combination and have your second character in instead of point char.
The first reason is because TAC is counter-productive to team dynamics. A lot of competitive teams rely heavily on their point character either being able to do a lot of damage without meter and/or a DHC to their second character (especially with the DHC glitch). Using a TAC would mean giving up a lot of damage for something that’s not guaranteed. Take Marn’s team for example (Magneto/Zero/Sentinel). If Magneto lands a combo, he can do rom loop into hyper grav loop into DHC trick with Zero’s Sougenmu. This deals enough damage to kill any character so there’s no point in TAC’ing. As for one of Justin’s teams (She Hulk/Ammy/Tron), She Hulk’s air combo leads to a deadly mixup that you’re forfeiting if you use TAC. Plus, if She Hulk has four meters, she can DHC into Ammy’s Level 3 for the kill too. TAC theoretically has a 33% success rate, but if your team is built right, even a successful TAC is a compromise.
The second reason is that TAC down and TAC left/right are often the only logical choices. Not only do they generate the most meter, but they also generate the most comboability. TAC Up puts you and your opponent way too far up that an OTG combo is sometimes no longer possible. If your second character can’t do anything big off of an upwards TAC, you’re better off either finishing off the combo with your point character or using TAC down or left/right. Your TAC success rate drops to 50%, thus diminishing its value even further.
The better your team is built and the more damaging your combos are, the less valuable TAC becomes.
The “team order” reason will be obsolete soon, in my opinion.
With “touch of death combos” for some characters, and the DHC glitch for other characters, people will need to understand that they can’t build a “team order”, or a “strong point/assist” character, because you may lose your point character anytime with a single mistake.
And right now people are only using snapback to kill phoenix, but someday it will be used to bring your anchor into play, into a bad matchup, to disrupt your team order, and to kill your “godlike assist”.
Competitive teams will evolve to be more flexible to team order, and to lose any one of the 3 characters, someday…
Right now, everyone fills his second hyper bar fast, and uses the DHC trick with his point character into massive damage, and that’s why this TAC mechanics are not used.
I agree with the above post. Why do people refuse to snap in Tron/Haggar/Akuma/Dr. Doom? I believe its just foolishness. Also, at the rate this game is going I’d say snapping in Wekser is a damn good idea. Wesker dominated Gaurd Crush and The Break in so many ways. It seema for the meta right now you must counter pick or snap in.
This. I’d rather not risk losing a combo - and potentially forcing a hard tag/killing a character - unless I really need to get a character out.
It’s a risky mechanic and I use it sparingly.
Snap in my Tron and my Doom and they will spank your face just like Wesker did.
TaC’s drive me fucking crazy and it makes me mad (salty) when I go to a tournament and see a player who uses them every game do well. They’re playing Rock Paper Marvel where the rest of us are playing the real thing. There’s too much reward with very little risk.
If it gets countered the player takes what? 50k damage? Something minimal like that? Punishment for a failed TaC should be a wall bounce with a combo unscaled at first. It would at least keep people who play Pheonix to actually learn how the game works. We’re three months into the game now and people are still using the same gimmicks they used back in February. I don’t like it, but, we still play the game.
Competent uses for TaC: It’s been 5 games and your opponent isn’t thinking about it. You’ve got him locked in a Zero BnB which could last an eternity. You glance over to see the frustration in his eyes from being stuck in your 30 hit BnB. Twenty hits in you change it up with a …“DOWN S???” in comes Dormamu “M H S land WELCOME TO MY REALM BITCHES!!” A smile comes over the other guy’s face, “You’re a dick for that.” At least, that’s how it works around here.
What the fuck do you think a mixup is?
That’s not the same and you know it.
I like how you disregarded everything else I said and quoted one line to make me look like I don’t know what I’m talking about. Well played.
Good for you bro. I’d rather beat up your less mobile, less dangerous character than fight Wesker with your herp derp assist backing him up.
Anything in the game is fair game. It seems like you think TAC’s are too good, but if that were true, why aren’t you using them? TAC’s have their pros and cons like any strategy. For one thing, they can be broken with a good read (or guess), resetting momentum completely. Since each of the three versions have different effects, you can often predict what your opponent might be going for, depending on things like meter, screen positioning, and the abilities of the next character (Flight, ground bounce moves, etc.). They also tend to screw with team synergy, depending on how well the team is designed to work in different configurations. Really, the only time they are “worth it” is to make up for something you don’t have, like a good damaging combo, DHC, or a way to build meter. Personally, I tend to use a Wesker -> Doctor Doom TAC often when I land a grab. It’s a risk I take to make up for Wesker not being able to do much damage or get a very strong DHC out of his grabs (unless I burn 2 bars off the bat with a Rhino Charge -> Sphere Flame DHC). Even then, it’s debatable whether that’s really worth it, considering Wesker has other options for mix-ups, which don’t usually knock him across the screen when they fail.
I actually hope people stop using this, its so braindead and stupid. I know I might come across as a scrub but here is why I hate it. 1. I spend several hours in training mode trying to perfect crazy hard combos and mixups that do around 800K+ DMG. Noobs can just do ABCD, ABCD -> Air tag x3 and do the SAME amount of damage + even gain meter…its just stupid, why even bother training? I might as well try to perfect tricking the opponent in pressing the wrong direction.
- Thing I hate apart from it gaining meter too, is that its not even punishable, at least not for my characters. I think there should be a bigger penalty than them gaining 1 meter cause the first trade was correct and not doing a full combo. You should be able to punish.
I knowww breaking a combo mid-way if you guess succesfully is pretty huge since one hit could mean death for most chars, but that you can potentially do the same DMG with such an easy combo PLUS gain meter is BS imo. But Im glad not everyone uses it.
As mentioned, I hate hate HATE that if my opponent messes up their air combos, i eat a reset (see Wolverine). Its already bad enough i got to guess 4 directions, now i got to consider my opponents executions as well. cawmon
>Implying using a feature of the game is not the real thing
It’s part of the game and there to help weaker players who lack execution for long john combos and give them a chance against better players. It is also a method to Tag out safely as opposed to hard tagging. Stronger players don’t really use it because… they don’t need it o_O Does that mean you suck for using it? Nope.
Even then sometimes your positioning sucks during a combo, wanna drop it and lose the advantage? boom TAC into someone else and end it in a better fashion
Besides my normal combos with Haggar and Tasky I routinely throw in TACs to each oth or Chris and then DHC right back to the guy I wanted on point at the end of it anyway.
Even better is when the TAC gets broken, all it does is waste time and resets the match. Did I mention I like time out wins?
Meter gain in general is insane as is. But the Down TAC does indeed spend Ground Bounce and Side TACs spend your wall bounce.
I don’t bother with super hard combos. I’d rather stick with consistent damage that I can pull off 100% of the time while ending in a favorable situation. TACs can help you in that respect if needed.
I’m sure it’s frustrating to drop a combo and get TAC’d for some easy peasy damage. You have a choice, keep practicing OR keep practicing and utilize TACs. It’s not a crutch.
This is indeed terrible. a legit complaint.
People need to quit hating. I’'l post my favorite use for TAC.
I’m using Taskmaster. I want Haggar in as I feel Haggar can rip this opponent to shreds but DHCing to him isn’t usually a good idea and Hard Tagging is a sure fire way to get murdered. Tasky scores a hit, we go into a combo, boom TAC into Haggar who continues the combo, air pipe, relaunch, magic series, S Giant Haggar Press. From here I can choose to DHC back to Tasky and finish off the opponent since the next character is a better match for Task or if it’s not worth the Meter, Haggar is already inside and can start to pressure the opponent.
Strategic move for positioning and covering a character’s weakness and focusing his strengths. What’s wrong with this?
Weaker players just need to learn how to play the game without rolling the dice. Case in point: I went to a tournament about a month ago and there were some guys from Atlanta. The two of them used basically teams of nothing but rushdown characters. Their combos consisted of mostly standard magic series to TAC to standard magic series to TAC and magic series to slam otg xx hyper - dhc - dhc. For something about a million damage or so. The problem is, that is all they would go for. I think one of them actually won the tournament, (mainly because all the stick users weren’t allowed to use our sticks so we didn’t enter. Poorly run tournaments ftw. I’m not saying stick = skill but our strongest players don’t use a pad) after the tournament we played casuals with the guys and completely destroyed them. The trick? Churn the fucking butter while mashing S, fuck trying to guess. Eventually they just up and went to another station and ended up playing with each other for several hours. Why travel if you’re just going to play with the crew you rolled up with?
Dealing with TAC’s isn’t really the problem it’s all the reward they give you that is the problem, and I don’t knock players for using TACs sparingly to throw off their opponents. It’s the players who revolve their entire game plan from them that puts a bad taste in my mouth.
@Dr Grammar: I never said they were good. I think there should be more deterrents from players abusing them, gaining a meter from a button press and a directional input is asinine. I’m cool with 50/50s, multiple mixups and unblockable setups, but TACs just drive me mad.
Perhaps a change to TACs could be once you use 1 direction you can’t use that direction again or increased hit decay, or just more damage scaling.
I DO understand that no one likes being random’d out.
I also feel you on the bolded part.
I personally don’t use it, cause I can wipe a character out in roughly one combo, so why take the chance of them breaking it ?
Oh really? How?
Regarding your point about there being too little risk, you’re forgetting to count the fact that they lose all the damage and meter they would have gotten had they performed the guaranteed combo. And, I feel like most useful mixups stack the odds much more dramatically, at least in this game.
I use TAC’s all the time in my Phoenix team. Let me address the “drawbacks” everyone keeps talking about.
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Losing potential damage - This is a moot point with a character like Wesker who maxes out at around 500k damage without meter. I simply do the exchange near the end of a long combo. If I guess right, I get to exchange into Magneto and kill your character by doing either the DHC glitch or the fierce loop into hyper grav temptest off Wesker samurai edge. If I guess wrong, I take 50k damage. What did I really lose by going for the exchange? A scaled j. S and a gunshot into a possible air throw reset? But the air throw can be teched and the damage is going to be scaled anyway. Might as well go for the exchange, possibly kill the opponent’s character, and build up a lot of extra meter in the process.
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Screws up Team Order - This is a total non-issue for a lot of characters for one simple reason: Hard-tags are safe if you do them immediately after you activate flying screen with a j. S attack - especially if you are close to the ground and you recover quickly while your opponent is bouncing. This is not even counting the possibility that you can do a hyper combo then DHC into the character you just exchanged out.
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Requires no skill - Riddle me this: What takes more skill? A combo situation where I give you zero chance to escape and kill you automatically on hit (e.g. this) or one where I have to trick you in order to kill you and get full damage? Would it help if TAC’s were inescapable? Would that make you feel better? This is such a dumb complaint. There are plenty of situations in MvC3 that are a 100% complete guess. The only thing that seems to bother some people is that even new players can use this tactic. I guess it wouldn’t be an unfair tactic if you could only access it by spending countless hours in training mode and only a few people in the world could do it. Oh wait, that’s the actual definition of unfair because not everyone would have access to the same tactics without an unrealistic time commitment to the game. :xeye:
I use Wesker/Magneto/Phoenix and some of you may be thinking why I don’t start Magneto and go for the inescapable dhc glitch combo over starting with Wesker and going for the escapable TAC into DHC glitch combo. Well here’s why:
- Wesker with Disrupter assist is harder to block and can get in a lot easier than Magneto with Samurai Edge assist.
- TAC builds mad meter for phoenix. Especially if I down exchange into magneto’s flight fierce loop.
- ROM is hard to pull off consistently online.
So take that for what it’s worth. In my opinion, TAC is underrated, but it should only really be used by certain teams for certain purposes - at least while the DHC glitch still exists.
Sort of an interesting find, not sure if it’s common knowledge or not…
The first hit of a successful TAC(the automatic one), causes knockdown stun(the unrecoverable spinning one, same as the DHC animation if i’m not mistaken). Haven’t messed with it too much, but with characters who can decend towards the ground with a dash, or something like a Skrull air d+H, might have options for cooler/better combo. I don’t think it resets the damage, not sure about the hitstun…perhaps some of you Lab-guru’s can find something cool with it?
Yes, I saw that video too. MODOK has some very damaging BnBs that can push close to 700k, but then I see this video and I think how enticing TACs are when they let you do things like extended Sent fly combos and MODOK being able to continuously combo air analyze cubes. It’s relevant for me considering the team I use is Ammy/MODOK/Sent.