Necrid had those pseudo projectiles that spiked out of the ground at a predetermined distance.
it kinda served the purpose of long range damage but yeah kinda limited for zoning.
That would break the engine. To made sidestep faster to avoid faster fireballs would be to make sidestep faster to avoid already fast launchers.
Projectiles are nothing but safer pokes more or less anyways. Games like tekken have characters that cover distance quite fast. Dont need em.
In order for projectiles to work in 3D, you pretty much have to limit the 3D portion of the game. You know, like making it into a 2D game.
Tekken’s projectiles have justified startup that flows with the system in place. Since I’m pretty sure that this question is only coming up thanks to TxSF, we’ll just concentrate on that. In order to maintain your little FB zoning game you’ll either need to make FBs enough of a threat to avoid them(guard stun, etc), or limit movement to the point that you only have certain options to fight them. Frankly I don’t want projectile spam in my Tekken engine, but that’s personal choice. I like only having to worry about physical attacks, instead of being full screen away chucking plasma. Save that for 2D.
And whoever it was that said something about SFEX, SFEX is NOT a 3D game. By that line of thought SF4 is 3D. It may be RENDERED in 3D, but it does not FUNCTION in 3D.
Well if it was sped up I think a crouch or crouch dash could be a good option to avoid them.
Well I don’t particularly agree with that. You know how 3-D action games handle it? That could be worked the same in a 3-D fighting game although some would question if it would be a fighting game if it functioned like an action game of sorts.
Sorry, sort of offtopic, but that reminded me. Are there any good 3D fighters that utilize the vertical dimension in a more than trivial fashion?
VirtuaFighterFour posted some videos of just such a game.
But is it a fighter? :wonder:
Doesn’t matter. He’s right. That was going to be my answer before I clicked on the thread.
I really need to get back into VOOT sometime.
Since when did camera angle define a game’s genre? ( FPS and TPSes are still essentially the same genre. MW2 doesn’t become an entirely different game when you join a third person lobby )
… I need to start playing that again, I used to play the shit out of that at arcades.
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the Dragon Ball Z Budokai Tenkaichi series
By tossing chuck norris into the fray.
Well youre opening a can of worms now, because projectiles in Tekken are unblockable. So…if you speed them up any faster projectiles in tekken would be too strong, assuming all projectiles are high. Because if they were mid that would be fucking insane.
Imagine if Nina’s mist came out faster AND was unblockable. Lol you gotta be kidding me. All she would have to do is force you into a frame trap 50/50 mixup to catch you in the mist for a juggle to wall carry then oki damage for an insane game of oki in a corner.
No projectiles in Tekken. The end.
First off, great thread topic. And great posts, like this black shroud post-even though I personally disagree with your response. You articulated your points very well. In my opinion, this concept has just been handled better in another direction very well in past games.
Okay, so first point I wanna mention, in games like tekken and soul calibur, if you sidestep from a far away distance, the relative distance between you and your opponent is reduced and does not remain the same. The sidestepping character is essentially moving forward. That’s an important concept I’ll get back to later.
yeaaauhhh. So like i said… many games in the past have taken different approaches than the black shroud concept, and I’ve liked the way those games played. So what do i mean. Well, for instance, in SNK games of the past, they gave characters the ability to roll through, or essentially sidestep fireballs. If you break down the numbers, these rolls gave the rolling characters lots of advantage and allowed them to move forward quite a bit. So did these rolls destroy the fireball game that much? Not really. Why?
The …frame allocation…I’m making up these terms obviously…of snk fireball moves is different than capcom characters. The overall frames of both capcom characters and snk characters are the same, but the order they come out is different. In Capcom games, usually the fireball comes out very quickly, and then the projectile throwing character remains in the fireball animation, unable to move, for a long period of time. Therefore, an opponent can wait for the fireball to come out, react to it with a roll/jump/whattever and still be safe.
However, in SNK games, the projectile takes a long time to come out, but when the fireball is actually on the screen, the character is free to move forward and punish their opponents roll/jump/counter move.
So for instance, let’s say I’m iori and I throw a fireball, immediately afterwards, i can run/dash forward…by the time you start your roll, jump, whattever (moves that leave you vulnerable) i’ll be right next to you and i can combo your ass.
So basically the point of my post, is that in past fighting games, like virtually all SNK games, fireballs are a way to set up big combo’s and mixups instead of a tool to keep your opponent away, or build meter. I like that concept.
Anyway, if you asked me, here’s the way I’d handle the situation. I’d make sidesteps move your character forward more than they currently do. A lot more, or rather, decrease the relative distance between your charcter and your opponents character. I’d also make fireballs come out slower, or later, in the fireball move animation, which essentially leaves more frame advantage after the fireball. Overall the total frames would remain the same, they’d start up slower, but they’d have more frame advantage overall.
So for instance, if you were far away from your opponent, and you threw a fireball, it would come out slower, but afterwards, you could immediately dash forward, and throw your opponent while they’re stuck in the sidestep animation. Hope this post made sense 
VO/OT are fighting games…and awesome ones at that:coffee:
No, those are not fighting games
Anyways the most effective way I see SF characters keeping fireballs in TxSF is like this -
Give them certain strings that can go into a fireball since we can assume the Tekken engine isn’t going to have cancels for the recovery of moves. Make the fireball come out fast, recover fast and also cause guard stun for pressure. Keep the fireballs sidestepable, you shouldn’t have to jump over them in a 3D game as you are vulnerable on the floor and this will cause a load of problems with the wake up system. If you sidestep a fireball at close range you should be able to be punished but not by much. Also consider the SF characters will have 3D attacks which means they’ll have more than a couple of them to stop sidestep while being able to force pressure with fireballs.
Basically you’d make them safe abusable projectile mids that are easily sidestepped and don’t do much damage but set up a lot of pressure for the SF cast.
people need o understand that sf wouldnt play like sf chars on T X SF, they would play like tekken versions of themeselves, pretty much like would play the tekken chars on SF X T
people need to stop worrying about stupid shit, seriously
Do you play tekken? Do you have any idea how bad of an idea you’re proposing sounds?
1: Since this will be Tekken-based, the SF chars WILL conform to the Tekken style, as much as you guys don’t want it to. That means Ryu will not be chucking plasma all day. One would hope that out of the minimum of 50 moves they’d have to create to flesh him out you guys don’t just worry about where your c.MK xx FB is at.
2: Safe, infinite ranged mids that create advantage on block AND hit will never have a home in a 3D game. Anyone that plays 3D fighters will tell you the same.
This is getting closed because once again, there’s plenty of time before they give us a solid answer, but I feel sorry for those that think they’ll be doing SF combos in Tekken.