Honda Safe Jump Setups, Fake Crossups and Unblockables + Vids

[stev0knev022]

Kind of tough to explain exactly how, it’s second nature to me now, i think you press the two punch buttons slightly later than you would normally.

[Mike_Robertson]

how on earth does one auto-correct ex headbutt with Honda?

basically what you need to know is you can actually “store” a charge for a bunch of frames. that number, i don’t know. but sometimes i see a jump in and actually press the forward direction too early OR I notice that i will need to get a little closer to the opponent to anti-air him correctly. so you will actually see honda phsyically inch forward a step and then headbutt.

well auto correct works very similarly. your input will look the exact same as if he were to hit you in front. its just a matter of timing the pressing of the buttons for whne you want the headbutt to come out. keep in mind many crossups do beat auto-correct ex headbutt.

[ugo_2u]

how on earth does one auto-correct ex headbutt with Honda?

basically what you need to know is you can actually “store” a charge for a bunch of frames. that number, i don’t know. but sometimes i see a jump in and actually press the forward direction too early OR I notice that i will need to get a little closer to the opponent to anti-air him correctly. so you will actually see honda phsyically inch forward a step and then headbutt.

well auto correct works very similarly. your input will look the exact same as if he were to hit you in front. its just a matter of timing the pressing of the buttons for whne you want the headbutt to come out. keep in mind many crossups do beat auto-correct ex headbutt.

Thank you for the tip. I was playing vs Balrog with Honda and the match was like a drag of who is more patient and punishes accordingly, I can get the auto correct headbutt now, thanks.

[Mike_Robertson]

for the most part, honda vs. any charge character has to be like that. one thing i specifically look for them walking forwards (losing their charge) then i headbutt.

if i am behind, i like to try and bait a dash punch by focusing or neutral jumping. i will also just walk up and stick out jabs. doesn’t work so well vs. Bison, however his pressure is a lot shittier than balrogs. you can light headbutt but good players will walk into that range on purpose and walk out making you whiff

[Angerus]

Ahha! So I’ve found new ideas for safejumping with Honda with the help of focus dashing.
Luckily Focus attack works as a reversal and has a reversal window like any other special or dash.

f.Throw, front dash, front dash, nj.HK normally whiffs on everyone, but if you
f.throw, front dash, focus attack front dash, nj.HK hits on almost anyone and is a 4fr safejump.
This is because going into focus attack and dashing out of it requires an extra couple of frames while still working as a reversal (and mashable for ease).

f.throw, front dash, focus attack front dash, nj.HK, also works as a great fuzzy guard setup.
If you bj.HK instantly after nj.HK is blocked, then the opponent will be hit if he’s crouching.
This works on; Abel, Adon, Deejay, Dudley, Gen, Gouken, Juri, T.Hawk, Vega, Yun and Zangief

I’ve also found a couple of extra fake cross-ups, They’re not as reliable as the others though.
corner Super: nj.HP (drift fully back), walk a couple of frames forward, fj.HK – Also makes DPs whiff
corner backthrow: cl.LK, walk couple of frames forward, fj.HK – Also makes DPs whiff

[Mike_Robertson]

hmm nice stuff

i have a hard time doign fake cross up + safe jump off super in corner (i tend to hit it a lot) my double jump super safejump is perfect now though. against some characters you have to walk forward instead of backward (dudley)

gotta go over the videos now thati have that super mid screen safe jump down and i have my fuzzy guards down i should try and work on some fake crossups

[gutabo]

Sorry for the late reply, real life won’t give me a break…

have been really trying to implement the safe jump after super setup… just realized that i have been walking forwards and not backwards lol was getting stuffed by DPs. have still managed to trade or stuff many reversals though. i believe this is the most useful setup out of the entire collection for me personally as i hit super almost every game.

just re-watched the entire gutabo setup collection, there are a few in particular that i am think will be useful that i will try to implement now that i have a better understanding of how the game works than when i initially joined this thread and had no idea what a safe jump was.

mid screen ambiguous jump + easiest fake cross up - most people will not see that coming from honda. timing does not appear hard to hit. fwd throw mid screen is reasonably common. also have almost the same option / inputs from when character is in corner.

Yup, they’re easy because you’re just holding up all the time after a throw. Just be careful with Seth and Gouken because they will autocorrect more often than not if your timing is off or if you glide forwards too much. And there’s lots of stuff left to do regarding setups after super, I have recorded some stuff and I left it at my friends’ place(where I recorded it) but now I have it so expect some more uploads soon

fuzzy guard setup - can this be used on a regular jump in the same way? i dont use the sweep that often, but many times i am limited to jump in hands or jump in oicho. i really should be using tick throws as well so I can utilize more setups although you need to land very deep and will only get 1 tick before pushback is too far for throw range. however i believe this would be a great 4th option even if it is not as safe as the version you have shown in the video (i dont see why it wouldnt be though).

Yes it can be done from any jump in. You have to do the attack REALLY deep tho. Regular throw is good because people are scared of oicho and they will try to jump out of it to puniosh the whiff. With regular throw they won’t be able to punish that whiff(well most of them, some like adon will be able to punish it too because of his low arc jump plus his downward jumping neutral roundhouse) and you can block/backdash/focus their punish attempt.

fake crossups vs. seth, sagat and ryu that hoodaman mentioned seemed extremely important because those characters will not respect a jump in on wakeup and will try and dp you 100%.

those are the ones i am going to start with.

Yes, shotos, sagat and seth will try to dp you until you teach them not to. Then you can start the mindgames.

the unblockables i find particularly hard to time personally and dont often get the opportunities to use them either. plus they require such specific setups that i think keeping them handy in your matchup notes would be the only way i could remember the setups. that being said i think vs. seth, sagat, ryu, ken, akuma - all setups are really important to learn because you want ot make them afraid to DP you on wakeup that gives you such a massive advantage.

that being said - i didnt really see anything that works on akuma + rufus. are there any good setups vs. those 2 pains in the ass??

Unless you opponent is Guile or T.Hawk unblockables are hard to do. Some characters(like Viper) are worth the shot because if you miss the timing you either get a fake crossup or a regular crossup if you do it too early or too late. Other characters like Gen or El Fuerte are a 1 frame deal and if you time it wrong they can block it either way or the jumping attack will miss so it’s not that good of an option. Sadly, Akuma belongs in this group. Most of the corner setups(like back throw, close fierce, jumping forward/roundhouse or regular throw, dash, close fierce, jumping forward/roundhouse ) work on him but they are a one frame deal. Rufus, on the other hand, belongs to the “kinda easy to get fake crossups on” group(with characters like fei long and cammy) because of his fat hurtbox so you can try the ones that I posted in text form in the second post of this thread. I have old videos that look like crap with rufus on them and I would rather make new better quality videos instead. I also wanted to finish the after super multi part videos but I’ll update the ones with rufus in(and move them up the queue) just because I hate that fat bastard(and dive kicks).

I’ll get back on the other posts tomorrow and hopefully I’ll have finished editing another video. Thanks for tuning in!

[ugo_2u]

any Honda unblockables on Cammy, Seth, Ibuki and Balrog?

[Mike_Robertson]

one thing i wanted to point out about setups post-super. it seems that if you cancel HHS into super the spacing can change. if I hit a very far-back HHS into super, character specific, i need to inch forwards instead of backwards to get the safe jump. i noticed this particularly against dudley. so this is something to consider when landing super this way.

[Angerus]

Also, after super in the corner, whiff heavy HHS, jump HK is a fake cross up on Ryu.

I went to hit the lab and check if this also worked on other characters because it’s a really good setup and pretty easy to do.
These are the results:

**Unblockable: ** Gen

Fake cross-up: Akuma, Blanka, Chun Li, E.Ryu, Hakan, Ken, Makoto, M.Bison, Oni, Rufus, Ryu

Normal cross-up: Adon, Cody

Can Block from both side: Guy, Ibuki

Whiffs on: everyone else

edit: Gen can’t neutral jump out of it.

[Mike_Robertson]

Also, after super in the corner, whiff heavy HHS, jump HK is a fake cross up on Ryu.

**Unblockable: ** Gen

edit: Gen can’t neutral jump out of it.

so sick

[ugo_2u]

Sad sad day

[sweatyshoulderguy]

Did you try the other strengths of hands as well? It may change results depending on which one you whiff then jump out of.

[Angerus]

Did you try the other strengths of hands as well? It may change results depending on which one you whiff then jump out of.

Afaik HP Hands and LP Hands have the same duration.
MP Hands takes 2 frames longer to recover in total.

edit; Actually, I don’t know why, but M Hands also works.

[Angerus]

• If you land a HP Headbutt from a combo or just randomly and the opponent is pretty close to the corner, then you can do a 4 frame safejump setup if they don’t tech.
  While doing the setup you can confirm if your opponent techs or not, it’s not too hard to pay attention to this.

corner HP Headbutt:
c.HK, j.HP - 4fr sj
s.HK/c.HP, j.HP - 5fr sj
s.HP, j.HP - 6fr sj

• If you land a LP Headbutt from footsies or any other way besides an Anti air, then you can do a 3 frame safejump if they don’t tech on big characters mid-screen.
  During your dashes, you can confirm if your opponent techs or not.

Midscreen LP Headbutt: f.dash, f.dash, fj.HP

Spoiler

http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/Y4e3z.gif

• Also here’s another gimmick 4 fr safejump that’s pretty easy to do but requires a 3 meter and only works when near the corner.
  AA EX Headbutt, FADC, fj.MK

Spoiler

http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/yZGUb.gif

• 2 Meaty setups to make Juri’s life on knockdown a living hell: It counters all of Juri’s escape options minus Ultra 2. Pretty easy to do since cl.HP has a million active frames
  Post Oicho, front dash, cl.HP (, c.LP xx HHS)

Spoiler

http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/O2tJG.gif

2nd hit of any buttslam, jump, front dash, cl.HP (, c.LP xx HHS)

Spoiler

http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/N5f6j.gif

• Super easy 7fr safejump on Juri, it’s pretty easy to punish Juri with a lvl 2 FA and combo off of that into hands -> EX Buttslam.
  f.throw, neutral jump, fj.HK.

Spoiler

http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/BGHD.gif

f.throw, neutral jump, fj.MK

Spoiler

http://i.imgur.com/BomqVUs.gif

[Angerus]

f.throw, f.dash, FA xx f.dash, nj.HK, fuzzy guard bj.HK apparently doesn’t work on Yang, but it does work on Yun. Weird, I always thought they had the exact same hurtboxes.
You have a 5 frame window to land bj.HK after jumping back.

Spoiler

http://img.acianetmedia.com/i/MIAJ3.gif

Also, I forgot to mention this, but Honda is one of the very few characters who can cancel their front dash by a couple of frames earlier into a focus attack. In Honda’s case his f.dash ends at fr18 if its cancelled instead of frame 19. The only other characters who can do this as well are Ibuki, Juri and Yang.

[sweatyshoulderguy]

^please tell me more about this fa dash tec.

[Angerus]

^please tell me more about this fa dash tec.

First, I think it wouldn’t hurt to explain how fadcs in general work and how it’s calculated when someone’s at a disadvantage or not.
If you forward dash out of a focus, your front dash is shortened by 1 frame. This is for all characters.

For example, off Ryu’s Shoryuken:
normal forward dash: 18 frames
shoryuken blockstun: 20 frames
forward dash out of a focus attack: 17 frames
uncancellable duration: 4 frames
20 - 17 - 4 = -1
So Ryu is at a 1 frame disadvantage after a Shoryuken FADC.

http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Street_Fighter_IV_(Old_Wiki_Page)

Now, let’s take this further, shall we?
Like, I said before, E. Honda is one of the very few characters who can cancel their front dash by a couple of frames earlier into a special or a focus attack. In Honda’s case his f.dash ends at fr18 if its cancelled instead of frame 19. The only other characters who can do this as well are Ibuki, Juri and Yang.
http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_IV_AE/Universal_Abilities#Frame_Data

For example, off Honda’s Headbutt:
normal forward dash: 19 frames
Headbutt blockstun: 20 frames
forward dash out of a focus attack: 18 frames
forward dash out of a focus attack, then cancelled into another focus attack or special: 17 frames dash + special/FA frames
uncancellable duration: 4 frames

20 - 18 - 4 = -2
So Honda is at a 2 frame disadvantage after a Headbutt FADC.

20- 17 - 4 = -1
Honda is at a 1 frame disadvantage at the point after a Headbutt FADC (cancelled into a focus or special)

• If you do oicho for example (what we always like to do after an fadc ironically), you can be interrupted by 5 framers.
  It can beat normals with 6 frame startup, this taking your -1 disadvantage after fadc into account. The reason why is, Oicho has 5 (+1 due to being negative after the fadc) frame startup, and as a general rule of thumb, if a throw and a normal clash at the exact frame, then the throw will always win over the normal.

• if you do jab hands (6fr startup) for example, you can trade/be interrupted by 7 framers.

I don’t know how much blockstun the first 4 hits of H.Hands do with Honda, so I’m not sure how negative or + he is after an fadc
Knowing this would be interesting to know why we often get away with HHS xx fadc xx oicho.

It’s a pretty lengthy explanation, but I hope you get the full idea of it.

[ssjbrydon]

Good shit Angerus! I haven’t been on srk in a good while nice to see honda tech still evolving.