TV’s dont lag, i can FRC all day on them GG peace out.
Too much effort … so I’ll just quote a random post in which a Yun scrub (named Shodokan9732383) says “i don’t experience any delays what so ever… and i’m using 125 mhz… i know you say there is 8ms lag but i can kara dp 100%, kara everything 100%… the speed seems dead on for arcade to me.”
To which some guy replies, "Kara-palms, any quickly executed moves, and combos are actually all terrible ways to test for lag. The reason is because execution only tests your muscle memory, which doesn’t depend on a visual stimulus.
This is what caused the Evo North debacle in 2006; JChensor thought that the HDTVs didn’t lag because all of his combos worked, but he had fooled himself because he knew the combos so well that he didn’t need to directly react to anything on the screen. Of course, within minutes of playing, all the top players knew that there was lag and SRK staff bought regular TVs for the tournament before it began.
In order to truly feel the lag, you’d have to do something like: try to do a jump in attack at the last possible moment you think you can do it before you hit the ground based on where your character is in the air. Of course, not everyone has good enough reactions like some of us to do these tests."
Maybe people can see how the same can apply to guilty gear. Someone needs to bring in IIDX or something and maybe we can actually see for ourselves – assuming IIDX or such games can reveal lag.
regardless, we did have excellent games on one of the big screen tvs. as in, everyone was able to pull off everything they wanted to do. evil pulled off crazy 15 hit combos with johnny all night (GOD) and i was able to annoy people will jam’s velcro combos. nobody got hit by something they knew they could avoid or block, ie. there were no moments where someone went “hey wtf…that shouldn’t have happened.” basically, we had control of the game, lag or not. honestly, i still can’t tell if there’s lag, the big screen tv still feels fine to me. i don’t know if that means i’m not a technical player or what. does that mean if i can play well on the laggy tv, i can do even better and own on a non-laggy tv? i really don’t think so…i brought my smaller tv down to zones and we all played on both tvs. i’m pretty sure the small tv doesn’t have any lag (it’s a flatscreen, but it’s only 20 inches or so). i did ok on both tvs, and i didn’t notice any change in my gameplay. what i’m saying is, if the big screen tvs lag, and my smaller one doesn’t, then my gameplay doesn’t alter between the two (that goes for evil, kog, tim, and beau too). then a question arises, what does it matter what tv you play on if your gameplay remains the same? of course, if the lag is hugely noticeable, like a 1 second delay, then there’s a problem of execution, but if the delay is only .1 seconds or something minuscule like that (which may be the case for the big screens), what does it matter? keep in mind that i am not at all used to the tvs at zones (meaning my gameplay does not usually accommodate lag). if anything, i am used to the tvs at brian’s and fun factory, since those are the only arcades i go to.
anyways, nonetheless, i am still bringing the smaller tv to the sessions. i hope everyone still comes to play guilty gear!
Tvs at brian’s? What’re you talking about?
Look, the thing is that for a few of the players the “lag” (whether anyone believes it exists or not) is a factor for them (or at least they say it is, for whatever myriad of reasons – you’re just gonna have to ask them yourself or hope one of 'em decides to post and give their point of view; I can only give mine).
Personally, I’m not a “technical” player either (however you’re defining it), and my gameplay isn’t heavily affected since I just rely on the basics of the game and character (perhaps characters that rely on link combos instead of cancels ARE heavily affected by the lag – I personally don’t know since I don’t play such characters). IOW, the t.v. at zones is acceptable for me for regular play. BUT, since a few people are not happy with the t.v. it means a good chunk of the potential crowd cannot come down due to any one or a combination of 1) person A doesn’t like the t.v. at zones, so person B, C, D, and E who are friends with person A have much less motivation to bother showing up AND/OR 2) person A is an important factor in providing transportation to and from Zones.
By bringing in other t.v. or possibly even getting a new one, hopefully it’ll be enough to please everyone and we can leave this topic in the dust and finally get this scene moving.
100% agree with both of them! Myself, Evil, D-Pad, and Tim all played tons of matches on the BOTH TVs (small and big) and ALL OF US were doing everything we wanted to do on either tv. As far as I know, gameplay on both TVs were similar.
D-Pad: Pretty much said everything I was gonna say. . . . .
http://www.fubarduck.com/hdtv-lag-faq/
Fubarduck’s explanation on HDTV’s. Most HDTV’s will lag because most HDTV’s don’t run on 480i/p which is native for the last gen console’s. So the TV has to convert the console’s native resolution and convert it to be able to be displayed on HDTV’s. Some people will notice it and some won’t. People have seen HD’s lag for 15 frames. Some HDTV’s have a “game” mode which allows it to run with very little conversion so it might miss 1 or 2 frames. So basically unless that tv is running on a 480i/480p native resolution there will be some kind of conversion going on which will take the tv some tv to convert and upscale.
This post has been brought to you by google.com and the letter “H”.
Next time I go, I’ll bring a video splitter. We can test the lag if we connect the cables to the big tv and split it to a regular crt from the ps2. I guarantee that you’ll find that the big tv will have a slight delay. Bet it!
i meant the screens on the cabinets at brian’s and fun factory, like cvs2 and 3rd strike. i’m not talking about the big screen tv that’s used to play the xbox. even i could notice the lag on that tv.
this is why i bring in my tv to zones. about this whole debate…it doesn’t matter to me whether the tvs lags or not. i just want people to come down and play!! i might debate about whether or not lag matters in the game, but in the end my goal is to get more people to play guilty gear on a regular basis. i want hawaii representation in major tournaments!
anyways, sessions are still on, small tv will be there, please practice up and head down if you can!
Alright this is a chance to make some money for you guys to think I’m wrong. Any amount of money down. This will be just like a money match. Except, you guys are going to be feeling damn dumb to be wrong lol.
I’m the most sensitive to LAG. Even marvel players told me that they don’t go to zones any more because of lag.
How much money do you guys wanna throw on it? FRC is muscle memory and rhythm in button presses for lots of chars. It has nothing to do with what lags and what doesn’t. Things that are tight on timing such as punishment, IB escapes, and some other higher level technical shit. I am certain that our players here aren’t at a level to find this crucial in GG yet. However, we notice it BIG TIME in 3s. Also in CVS2 and Marvel according to some others. Let’s wonder why the P-Groovers weren’t parrying so well at the big tourney we had.
So, let’s see. How well do you guys trust your judgment? I’ll start with 2000 bucks on it says it lags more than 1F which is about 16ms according to that article. BET IT! 
i just said i don’t care if the tv lags or not…just come down and play. i don’t care! just come down and play. there’s going to be a tv there that doesn’t lag. you don’t have to play on the big screen tvs.
i didn’t even doubt there was lag to begin with. my long post was debating why lag matters if higher level players can bypass it (and maybe we GGAC players aren’t skilled enough yet…but matt is considered a high-level player in cvs2 right? and he’s had no problem playing on the tvs at zones). am i going to feel dumb that i’m wrong about the lag on the tvs? no, because i wasn’t arguing about that in the first place. i never stated “there is no lag on the big screen tvs.” i was questioning the ability to ignore a slight delay in a game and play how you would on a lagless tv.
anyhow, i really don’t care as long as people come down to play. i just want to play guilty gear. is everyone still going to show up to the sessions?
Let’s see you do something that requires visual cues. Not sound cues or button tapping rhythm cues.
I wasn’t referring to you. People who aren’t affected by lag clearly aren’t technical to a degree of highly sensitive visual reaction based play.
I am however referring to people who think there is no lag. Think about it.
Do I want to complain about lag at zones because I want to win there and the players are just so good to the point I can’t and I have to complain about something? No, I don’t think so.
Another point is that counting on your audio cues aren’t going to pay off every time. EVO is an example of a loud event where you’re going to be distracted once in a while.
Please people. Notice that I’m trying to further our scene. You HAVE to be technical in order to do well at a competitive level. Playing on laggy TV’s will ENSURE that you NEVER get there. Seems like you have some kinda ambition to get good at GG so hopefully you can see my point.
Who wants to put money down?
So this is a money match. People who think it lags and people who doesn’t think it lags. Who wants to back the other side?
yes, this is why i bring down my tv to zones.
we’re all on the same side. we all want to play and get better at guilty gear. a division between players can hinder the scene. i’m pretty sure no one is questioning your ability to sense lag. no one besides evil outright stated that there is no lag, and i’m sure he basically meant what i posted earlier. other than that, there’s really no one who’s arguing with you
honestly, i’m just looking forward to you and kyle coming down and showing me some slayer and dizzy tricks
OMG LOL
Hey PSX, can you rename the thread “FANBOYS TECHNICAL TV LAG DISCUSSION”
Guys: Why not ask IIDX to spot the community the 2000 dollars he’s willing to put up, and use that resource to pay for more sticks, more tv’s, more ps2’s, more copies of the game, a dvd recorder to record matches, blank dvd’s to put those matches on. and so on.
And pay IIDX back as time goes on with small interest let’s 5 percent total (so 100 dollars on the 2000 he loans the community). If 10 guys pay 10 bucks a week, to play on equipment provided by IIDX, he’ll make his money back in a matter of months at an interest rate that might be better than some instruments of investment. And if more guys play then that week’s share is smaller for everyone.
D-pad could collect all the money at the same time as when he collects the fee for playing from everybody playing. And give a 100 to IIDX every week for 21 weeks.
Something can be worked out.
Sorry, i’ll be out of commission this weeked too, saturday is a maybe though.
Obviously there’s division in the scene atm. And this lag issue only flared up again when one or two people just wouldn’t let it go. From my standpoint, it seemed people were still willing to come down when D-pad (in fact if you look on the third page, James W. posted he’d probably be down on thurs.) started bringing his own t.v. down and there were plans being made for a possible new t.v.
For the sake of the one or two individual who continue to insist on no lag, then maybe some test finally should be done to settle this. On the other hand, I have a feeling that doing this will only result in resentment and further division. But ya know, this issue has been going on for sooo fuckin’ long (way before this thread started) that I think the facts NEED to be exposed once and for all. If James is going to go ahead with the lag test, I’ll have my money on there being lag. Not that I care so damn much about it, but because some people just keep dragging it on, so something has to be done to settle it.
Damn, it’s pretty much east coast vs west coast. LOL. Aiea vs Town.
So whos going to tattoo “THUG LIFE” on there stomach?
j00 will and I’m down for paying.
Hey, you guys better take this seriously. Niggas get shot over lag, and these be some serious niggas. They play marvel in the arcades and shit, so you know they be some thugs.