Hulks :h: is armored. It loses to anything with more hits than it can absorb (which is only one). (I could be wrong here, it may be a damage based absorption.)
I’d like to say that you can’t really include multi-hit and armored normals in this discussion because of their base properties.
Yeah, Chun’s legs beat out everything because they are multi-hit. Yeah, it seems like Hulks :h: is high priority because he’s absorbing that first hit and going through to you. Zero’s j.:h: is similar to Chun’s legs, too, but it’s in the air, which I feel makes it harder to guard against because it’s really easy to drop to c:l: with it, and with c:l: spam in this game people really like to block low.
X-23’s c:l: his high priority, to me, as it can beat out a move that’s already en route due to it’s speed. Akuma’s Tatsu’s first hit is very high priority, for the same reasons, and the follow ups are an added bonus.
Still, this is my opinion. But, I would rather see a comprehensive priority guide for armored, multi, and normal moves, as well as Supers.
Then whatever wins isn’t actually decided by priority, but my other factors in those games. It doesn’t change what priority is. In MvC3, priority is definitely at work. Don’t believe me? Pit Wolverine’s dive kick against any standing normal, then pit it against itself. It will beat almost any standing normal but will trade with itself. That’s because it has higher priority, despite hit boxes overlapping.
Priority is also at work in the projectile system in MvC3. Projectiles don’t trade durability points unless they’re of the same priority.
It’s important to have the definition right if you’re going to continue to talk about it. A move can beat another move for a lot of reasons, but that doesn’t necessarily mean its priority is higher.
Only if they overlap at the same time and have the same priority.
Examples of high priority moves in MvC3:
Wolverine’s dive kick.
Haggar’s Pipe (I think - it might have some armor?)
Examples of moves that often win in MvC3 for reasons other than priority:
Hulk’s standing H (armored)
Zero’s j.H (disjointed hitbox - the opponent’s attack never reaches zero’s hurtbox)
Sentinel’s hard drive (invincibility)
Apocalips, none of the things you mentioned as priority have any reason other than hit boxes. A lot of long tall hit boxes with the hurt boxes farther back and down beat wolverine’s dive kick, the easiest way to show this is Dante’s standing B which in turn can be beat by a lot of farther back horizontal hit boxes. Chun’s another one where the best way other than projectiles of beating what she put out is often a sword since you have no hit box while your hurt box is huge, TaskMaster jumping C is an excellent way to deal with it. Haggar’s pipe just has a big hitbox but most characters can space things to beat it, just the timing is tight, there’s no armor on it as you can see with how often it will trade with normals you time late to punish pipe, the pipe does not have armor.
More along proving this isn’t a priority based system you can in fact beat task jumping C with Dante stand B, but at the vast majority of non max ranges it will trade or lose to lightning legs.
On MvC3 projectiles there is a specific system in place but that’s about pre-assigned values closer to priority. as DevilJin01 clearly showed an understanding of how real priority works when bringing up other games that actually have it. Please don’t try to correct someone who knows what they’re talking about when you do not.
Dive kick probably has a large hitbox, while shrinking wolverine’s hittable hitbox. Standing normals have small hitbox, while keeping the character’s hitbox the same size as neutral. That probably explains why dive kick out-“prioritize” standing normals.
Another note, what happens when 2 attack hitbox collides without touching the character’s hitbox? In blazblue and guilty gear the moves clashes and cancels each other out.
Well, if you’re just going to say ‘don’t respond to someone, just assume they’re right,’ then what’s the point of conversation?
I think it’s important to acknowledge why certain moves beat others so that players make better informed decisions in game. Vaguely categorizing every move that happens to beat another as ‘priority,’ when priority already has a well-defined meaning within fighting games, is counterproductive.
This is very likely true and well put. If that’s the case though, this thread really has no point. There are so many moves moves that fit that definition that listing them all wouldn’t be useful in the slightest.
For a better discussion on this, the projectile thread is very, very informative and actually does handle the issue of priority.
@ Apocalips: When you say proves your original point you’re ignoring that your original point was “This actually isn’t quite right. Priority is a variable assigned to moves. It determines which move takes effect when hitboxes overlap with hurtboxes at the same time. The one with the higher priority will take effect over the lower priority move.” there isn’t a variable, it’s a matter of hit boxes and hurt boxes.
No, DevilJin gave an accurate correction on a game that actually uses priority on hit boxes since you were applying it to Marvel 3 normals which was inaccurate.
I never said assume someone’s right, I said positing inaccurate information especially regarding things like Wolverine’s dive kick when there are counters to it and understanding that it doesn’t have some magical priority is counter productive to the general information of the board. Priority has been a colloquialism of SRK, dust loop, etc for an exceptionally long time. It’s like the word theory; the layman’s use of the word theory isn’t the same as the actual meaning of the word. When referring to an assumption or idea in the vast majority of communities. It’s more counter productive to give inaccurate information like that on lightning legs/pipe than it is to give accurate information that utilizes different syntax from the one you prefer.
It is a variable. All projectiles in this game have it. If all physical moves in this game have the same priority, then that’s just how this game is, but that doesn’t change what priority means. If it’s a matter of hit boxes and hurt boxes, then it’s not a matter of priority.
Priority is not a catch-all term for how often a move wins. If that’s how you’re using it, then you’re using it incorrectly.
Again, that was after I corrected him. If it’s irrelevant to physical moves in MvC3, then so be it, but it doesn’t make my application of the term inaccurate.
You basically did by saying don’t respond. You have to question something to find out if it’s right or not. If you don’t respond, you can never do so, and then you have to assume. That’s dumb and not what forums are for.
I admit that I was wrong about wolverine’s dive kick, but that doesn’t mean you’re not misusing the term priority.
Actually, it’s much easier to say “lightning legs usually wins because it doesn’t have a hurtbox where her legs are” than to correct a misconception of a broader term.
You can keep harping on that, but it really has no bearing on what priority actually means.
If you want to continue using the term in a way that basically has no meaning, go ahead. It seems to me that it’d be much better to use the term according to what it actually means, and when you want to refer vaguely to good moves, just call them ‘good moves.’
Hell, you even admitted that he was using the term in a way that isn’t actually what it means. I don’t really see how you can tell someone not to post something that’s “wrong” even though you admitted what I said was true.
Try to keep things in sequence. The things I was wrong about were the priorities of several moves. Look at the post - I said that after explaining what priority really means and separated it from my reply to deviljin. That’s not even considering its irrelevancy. How does whether or not Chun’s legs have a higher priority affect a discussion on the definition of priority? It doesn’t.
If you have an assumption that when hit boxes and hurt boxes overlap things will act in a certain way that’s not accurate to how the game interprets them then you make decisions based off inaccurate information. One of the reasons I have a lot of clashes in games like GG when I assume that a trade should occur.
If all variables are filled by the same constant as with the ‘priority’ of moves then it doesn’t require a variable, it just requires a constant or in certain circumstances nothing at all. So while you’re accusing Deviljin of misusing terms you’re doing the same. Over all it doesn’t really matter as long as we use the information we do have to formulate more solid game plans. I shouldn’t have gone off on you, I just had a short fuse about people being corrected by someone else when they’re contributing the most useful information to a thread thus far.
Again, it may be possible that priority isn’t even a factor in those games. That’s fine. It just doesn’t change what the term refers to.
I’m not sure what you’re saying here, but yes, an outcome can definitely be determined without assigning a priority to every move.
I still don’t see how. I was wrong about a couple instances, but that isn’t anything that deviljin brought up. I’m still using the term correctly.
I didn’t mean to imply his post wasn’t useful or helpful. If it came across that way, I apologize. My only intent was to clear up a misconception on what the term refers to. I’m probably being overly nitpicky, and it’s very possible that deviljin using the term that way better answers the OP’s question.