i’ve been training opponents to back dash on wakeup with meaty ex oroshi and mixing in karakusa… then when you read one of their backdashes, its free dash forward karakusa >ultra or other mixup 
nj. hk as air-to-air for when he isn’t using his dive. Otherwise, you can block the dive and punish with mp hayate. (Into super into U1 if you’ve saved up enough.) Just beware of whiffed and cross-up condor dives.
I believe hk tsurugi has a chance of being safe. Probably better to use that for your jump-ins and throw evasion than the other tsurugi.
I believe backdash gets away from his dp on wake-up.
Condor spire is FA-able. But I’m not sure about the viability of attempting that.
Still trying to figure out better tactics. The nature of the game with thawk may simply be to try to get damage in as he tries to get in, obtain that early lead, and play as safe a keep away as possible.
You can punish Condor Dives with anything you want really, f+MK > HK Target Combo, or Yamase are the ideal punishes, as they’ll push Hawk away after dealing good damage. You need to walk forward a tad or Yamase’s last hit will whiff.
F+hp, hp can also punish condor dive on block, but sometimes you dont get all the hits due to spacing. Do you guys think Ultra 2 could punish it on block as well?
I been trying to use Ultra 2 in more unconventional (non-FBer) matchups. I’m liking it alot so far because:
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It allows her to easily escape pressure, or counter attack most characters. Its very good for escaping if Bison has you trapped in the corner, or for countering Elf Fuerte’s shit on your wakeup (DEFINITELY use it in the Elf match). I’m definitely gonna experiment with it more in the Rufus matchup because his pressure on Mak is just retarded.
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Can punish some backdashes, so if someone has a tendency to back dash after you hit them with hp xx hayate, then whip out the ultra.
Trying to AA T. Hawk is a gamble in itself from what I’ve seen. The delay he gets when starting his dive allows him to dodge normals that would punish his standard jump-in arc. If you bait the dive and block, punish with f+HP for one hit. You can sometimes get more, but it depends on how high he hits you and bounces off. F+MK >> s.HK works at times, but if you block the dive when he’s deep (as in almost touching the ground), the HK can whiff, meaning you get wrecked. MP Hayate works, but then you’re in his face. F+HP has never failed me for the first hit, and if you don’t do the followup you can get back out of his face. EX Hayate is a good punish as well since it knocks him back so far, you can get out of his insane corner 50/50.
I’m alright when trying to play the footsie game against him. s.MK if he gets too close, or block and try to anticipate and make his s.HK whiff and sweep it. It’s his dash and spire that get me. The spire moves such a short distance that often it whiffs and he’ll 360. Same goes for the dash. The other main issue comes when he jumps, since it seems in his favor almost. You need to hit him from max hitbox distance unless you want a trade, and he has that option of the dive at hand. This looks like one of her matchups where dashing under a jump is her best option.
you could mix in a n.jump rh to punish TT attempts after fadc in, then you could land into s.fp xx fp hayate for damage.
I am aware of how to punish a Tornado Throw. I even mentioned it in my post. I was only stating the speed at which people will catch on to Hayate, FADC, Karakusa. I am aware of the need to mixup afterwards as well.
ok, no offense intended with my post ^^
Quick question, may seem dumb but I’m new to Makoto. If I do a Karakusa>S.Mp>S.Mp>Hayate Cancel, will I recover quicker than if I were to just do Karakusa>S.Mp>S.Mp? The reason I ask is because I’m trying to see what would be the best/quickest way to get a Karakusa re-grab. Any help would be appreciated. I’m reading every page of the thread so I can learn all this stuff.
To calculate…
s.hp = 3 active frames/24 recovery frames/-5 frame advantage on hit.
Give that it’s possible to do s.hp XX hayate cancel, s.mp and the s.mp has a startup of 5 frames… the hayate cancel must take: 24+2(from active)-10(to go from negative to positive frame advantage)=16 frames total at most.
s.mp = 7 active frames/7 recovery frames/+5 frame advantage on hit. Frame advantage on hit after a s.mp XX hayate cancel assuming it hits on the first frame: 7+6+5-16=+2
To put Theli’s words simply, “You shouldn’t hayate feint any normals for frame advantage aside from Fierce.”
Ive managed to punish Condor Dive with Ultra 2, but only with Makoto’s back closer to the wall than Hawk.
Just a theory that sprung to mind.
I know people are complaining about the range on ex karakusa.
But I was thinking, since it’s an absorb move, can’t you just input hcb+kk~hk, if it absorbs it should cancel into hk karakusa?
If somebody could test this it would be great, I’m going to bed since it’s 6:30 in the morning here.
i was testing that out the other day (ex kara absorb xx hk kara) and it didnt work, ex kara xx ex kara and ex kara xx ex oroshi didnt work either
Anyone else feel like punching glass when playing mak right about now?
Hey guys, first of all very nice thread… been learning lots of Makoto’s tricks from here. Not sure if it has been mentioned before, but EX Tsurugi might have full body invincibility. I’ve been successfully dodging upward and air fireballs completely with it. Though, I dont know if there are any other better use of it.
and multi hitting if i remember correctly, so it should beat focus. haven’t tested in matches to see if it is reliable enough
really? body invincibility?
if that’s true (and hits twice, like in the air), it should be very good on wakup.
really? body invincibility?
if that’s true (and hits twice, like in the air), it should be very good on wakup.
Don’t we have the hit boxes and such for EX Tsurugi already? I don’t use it much, but I’ll mess around with it when I get home.