Yep… I think I’m in the same boat as you, except I have never beaten Damdai’s Ken either… of course them’s the breaks when you play Cammy and you play against Ryu, or Ken, or Honda, or… oh hell that’ll just take too long :D.
For what its worth, Mr. Jangara is the best Cammy on XBL, but since he’s from Japan most people probably haven’t played him in an environment that’s reasonable to tell so who’s the choice for North American Cammy players?
For the record, I’ve never played or met Antagonist so for all I know he could be as good as sliced bread, I just don’t know…
6.5 when you’re sitting on the edge of your beanbag chair and maaaaybe a 7 when you get like 2 more years of practice and have encountered every scenario from a physical, emotional and verbal wizard such as myself.
Jiggly’s Hawk is better. I bump into penguin in some of my friends player rooms sometimes, and jiggly’s on my friends list, so i get to play them both occasionally.
Penguin is really good and i enjoy playing against him when we meet. We both win some/lose some and have good, fun, close matches. On the other hand, i really have to keep on my toes to survive with jiggly. I think some of the difference between them might be down to specific matchup awareness but jiggly’s definitely got superior execution on things like pulling off advanced stuff in the heat of battle etc. regardless of who he’s up against.
This is only my oppinion based on his win/loss record against me, and maybe it’s because his second character is my main (bison) and he knows that match inside out from both sides, but jiggly’s timing with hawk is flawless. Any mistake by me means i’m in deep shit. I guess that’s how that matchup goes if it’s played right, but 8 out of 10 hawks on XBL don’t even worry me, and the other one or two might just force me to play carefully but rarely cause me too much trouble if i stick to my game plan.
Jigglynorris has probably the only T.Hawk that really scares me. With him it’s not “if i fuck up i might die”, it’s “if i fuck up i’m already dead”
…Oh and jiggly, you can quote me on that if you want :bgrin:
I’ve played BeefBowl and Voltech and Cvital, and out of those three, I think the better/smarter Chun was Vital – not to take anything away from Beef or Voltech.
In my experience, the difference between good players and GREAT players is this simple fact. The best players will consistently end the round on 1 big mistake. They’ll either TOD combo, put you in endless corner pressure, or hit you with a series of mix-ups that force you to guess until you’re ko’d.
Its also my experience that the added pressure of “don’t make a mistake” often hampers execution, reaction time, and decision making.
I’ve literally frozen up while playing Bluetallcans.
And yeah, knowing both sides of that fight helps a lot, but I still say its a 6-4 fight in Hawk’s favor. My Hawk has been pretty weak lately for some reason (well, maybe not as strong as he usually is) because I’ve been using so much Ryu/Dictator. I gotta change that.
Yep, definitely. All of those things are really bad for bison too, when he’s on the back foot. A defending dictator is usually a lot more of a pushover for all that stuff than an attacking one, and when i get cornered by someone that knows how to capitalize on a mistake and mix up effectively (tick 360 AND psychic rising hawks keeping me in the corner :annoy:), without me having a reversal super, i can literally put so much into trying to get out of a lockdown that by the time i do, my health is all but gone along with my chances of winning the round.
Word to the wise.If you’re using bison, NEVER use your super versus a pro T.Hawk, unless it’s GUARANTEED to win you the round. You never know when it might get your ass out of a certain death corner trap. One mistake or knockdown and hawk will be so far up your ass you’ll be able to see the feather in his hair when you brush your teeth.
Build meter early and hold on to it like your life depends on it, because sooner or later it probably will.
No problem.
Yeah we’ve had that matchup discussion before and i think that sounds about right, but your hawk versus my bison is about 8:2 when you’re on form. :sad:
My personal win/loss on beating hawks is probably 9 to 1 or better, because he just isn’t a popular enough character to run into enough good ones online, which is a shame, but that also means it’s hard to get enough practice to get good at beating good ones when you do meet them, which is much more annoying…But yeah, if the 2 characters are being played correctly and to the limit of what they can do like the tier list whores say, then it’s definitely moved down from 7-3 Hawk (Vanilla ST) to about 6-4 Hawk (HDR). It’s one of those matches where 2 characters have had their matchup effected quite a bit due to all the nerfs and buffs that happened in the remix. Hawk’s Dive nerf and bison’s better DR and stand jab, and even sometimes his fake slide (if the hawk player is slow/dumb) make it a bit easier for Dic, but then you come along and fuck it all up again with your monster tick 720s and the like…
BTW, your ryu is a great match for me, last time i played you i didn’t want to stop playing at all. I can play versus ryu all day long on XBL, it’s like painting by numbers, but i love meeting a clever one who doesn’t fall for all the the usual dictator BS. Would love another pop at you to see how you’re developing him. Hit me up if you see me on HDR.
Just throwing out some names I haven’t seen mentioned for some characters:
Blanka - Empirion Balrog - Ken - buhilaro (aniken) Zangief - Dhalsim - Vega - Ryu - uber cyber ryu, afro legends Fei Long - ramza, rightupuralley Dee Jay - true old school Honda - Guile - true old school Cammy - Bison - stiffpeter Sagat - stiffpeter Chun Li - zass T. Hawk -
I do get on, but it’s usually during the evening. And picking an all star team is kinda tough for me because I’d have to pick 2 separate teams. One for online only, and one for offline. There are only a handful of players that play online and do really well offline(like in tournaments for example), whereas most of the online greats are just that…online greats.
It’s sort of a see-saw factor that comes into play. Many great offline players do horribly online, some do ok. Many great online players do horribly offline, or they do ok.
You wouldn’t believe how many people I hear come into a room and giggle “OMG, I beat both DGV and AfroLegends” and think that it really means something. I can’t help but chuckle. Yeah, it’s great that you won but c’mon.
I think it’ll take more tourneys and offline challenges to really balance things out and see a real set of HDR All Star candidates.
Hmm, this is a good idea. How about all star teams sorted by region? Due to lag and such, a lot of these players I never get to play against.
It would be nice to have a regional hit list so we can play against the best of our worst match ups and see how we can improve.
I presume it’s all down to lag. Even on the very best connection (best I’ve had is 22ms with AeroRockman), it is still at least one frame adrift, and for the tournament winners, this will obviously be very important. I guess us online generation kind of get used to it and compensate for it in a way, which may even be changing our styles. For example challenging wakeups where you normally wouldn’t (since the reversal is not as reliable).
Then you have things like setups. It could be that they use good old CRT at the tournaments, but say in afro’s house, he has a nice big LCD, which unfortunately may have a good 30ms input lag at least due to the technology.
I’m no pro by any shot, but I get really pissy about lag. I have decent timing and I want a reversal when I damn well input the command.
And sometimes it’s not even lag. Some people just play better at home in their own zone, ya know? I think players that grew up loving both online and off gameplay back in the early 90’s(Xband SNES/Genesis)can easily testify that sometimes online play would effect your offline play. Like compensating for lag, risks, etc.
Sometimes it takes me weeks to undo the damage that online play has done to my game.
I have a group of friends that I play with regularly in ST and HF and they can definitely tell when I am sucking and when I am on my game.
Not to take anything away from players who do awesome online. I think some exposure to a wide variety of opponents is better than none at all. But IMO I look at online play as a nice testing ground for weapons to be used on the battlefield.
I remember reading a long post by Apoc on the subject of tournament play and the factors that effect the players. Even playing head to head vs side by side…I never knew there was such a significance but he explained it pretty well.
As far as Thelo vs EA goes, I haven’t played EA in some time, but Thelo’s patience is astounding. The one gap I did see was that sometimes he would try and challenge the reversal ability of his opponent and it seemed like a risky gamble. I haven’t played online in a while, so I don’t know how the competitive scene there has evolved, but I do like Marsgatti as a top Guile player. His enthusiasm for the character shows.
I don’t think that’s true at all. Valle, Afro, Wolfe, and a host of other top players absolutely wreck faces online.
Then you have people who predominately play/refined their skills online like Thelo, EAmegaman, MarsFlash, me, and others, who are just as good offline.
Great players are great players no matter what the venue.
Of course many of the top OG’s are gonna do well online just by their experience alone over the rest of the players online. But when you get to those top tier matches online, yeah they’re fun and great to watch but imo I wouldn’t put much stock in the stats. So many players that I know are damn good offline get wrecked online in a room sometimes and I think to myself “damn, he’s a beast in the tourneys” and vice versa.
Players like Shirts, DreamTheater+, Sirlin, CigarBob and Bob Painter are just a few players that I have played face to face and I can tell you from experience that they are much tougher in person than online…and why is that? Because in high end play the little things come into play and that is where I do not agree with you on the whole “great players are great no matter what the venue.” Alot of players including myself end up holding back or going for riskier stuff because of the simple fact that we are playing “online.” The “venue” as you put it, changes everything imo.
