Harness Your Quan! Zeku General Discussion Thread

Street Fighter V Zeku
141

@Pertho

Since you like the youngster so much you might want to try this reset out:

Cr.mp,st.mp>st.hp xx ex palm,st.hp xx run stop. This leaves you at +1 at point blank and it’s a flip out so the opponent can’t choose their wake up option. This leaves you with a cr.lp/throw mixup.

If it’s a CH cr.lp… it links into st.mp target combo xx m hozanto, m Palm

And the entire series does 915 stun.

If you are willing to spend another meter (and you should) you can combo into ex palm, H hozanto, m palm for 524 stun, or 989 total stun for the series.

Basically Zeku is a character that can realistically stun characters in 2 combos.

142

You guys are making me want to play Zeku while I wait for S3 to roll around, room for a youngster?

143

Always :slight_smile:

144

Practice series to get old Zekus most important wake ups against quick rise>jab into muscle memory

St.mk,st.mp xx ex teki xx lk koku, dash
St.mk,st.mp xx mk koku, dash
CH cr.lp,st.mp xx ex koku dash x2
CH cr.lp,st.mp xx mk Koku dash and block (repeat from beginning)

This is just a training regimen to cycle through the most important options and get them into muscle memory for later use.

145

So is ex teki actually negative on block? Because all my testing is bringing it out to +2?
Nvm, I get it. Block high to block the strike portion then block low and you give yourself more frame advantage as the defender. The faster you block low after the strike, the more advantage you get.

Very very weird.

146

Which gives me another idea:

since the strike hits on frames 18 and 19, if we can meaty with ex teki on a knockdown that is +20 or more, we bypass the strike frames and can get our juicy goodness off.

And, yes that works.

So it adds more punch to the meaty that @los figured out. Basically v skill in the corner, then lk teki to cover both wake ups, but lose to mashed low moves. However to beat mashed low moves, use ex teki to cover both wake ups and still stay plus on block. So a pretty decent metered way to gain access to pressure on block.

147

Just writing this down so I don’t forget.

KD>Meaty ex Koku>idaten>cr.lp for pressure against quick and back rise at midscreen. With Zekus monstrous stun output this could be a good guaranteed way to get pressure at mid screen without having to deal with back and quick rise.

Need to test this when I get a chance.

-edit

Nope, doesn’t work, or I just don’t have the skill to do it.

148

Is DP AA just reset to neutral?

149

Generally, yes. Especially if they backrise you won’t be getting any pressure off on them.

The grounded frames are +19, +24 so you do get a free dash up. They will be more as an AA but the distance you knock people back means you don’t get any pressure.

Best to hope for is an ex or hk Koku to get some chip, depending on how close they are to the corner.

150

His cr.hp CC OS is very strange, not gonna lie.

151

Yeah I find it hard to to time the cancel if that’s what you are referring to… but then again I haven’t ground out the timing.

However, I have heard from automattock that the very last active frame of cr.hp isn’t cancelable, so take that into consideration as well. Also look at automattocks tech stuff. Since you seem interested in higher level execution stuff you might like his st.hp os.

152

AH! BINGO! I knew something was going on with the game, I though I was bad for a sec!

I was sure I had the timing down but it just wasn’t working, thanks granddad!

153

I’m very curious about Zeku changes in AE, mostly because some of his stuff seems over complicated if compared with others characters. I mean, he’s definitely a good one, but I don’t get why he deserved some hard hitconfirms or pushbacks. Like Sako said, maybe Capcom makes Zeku a bit too tamed in certain areas, can’t wait to see how they’ve rebalanced this character.

154

I haven’t really thought about zeku buffs tbh… he feels like he has everything but some of it is slightly underpowered.

The only thing I’ve really been searching/hoping for is better on block pressure and a high priority aerial get in with his young form.

155

I’ve only been using him a short while but this would be my personal wishlist, it’s basically all to do with his normals and nothing more.

Old adjustments -

Reduce old cr.hp pushback on hit to allow st.lk link, fantastic meaty tool but gives nothing on normal hit - counterintuitive

Make 4th active frame of cr.hp cancellable, bit weird that it isn’t, I use cr.hp a decent amount at tip range in the neutral to CC fish and if it lands on 4th frame I don’t get anything, it’s another consistency problem he’s faced with.

Reduce old st.mp pushback on block/hit very slightly to bring consistency to entirety of roster in hit/blockstrings across roster - Chun-Li and possibly others make both combos and blockstrings whiff

Reduce old Zeku st.mk to 6f, minor reduction to pushback on block/hit(see above) improve overall blockstring game allow 4f traps into teki BnB

Young adjustments -

Reduce st.mp pushback significantly, opens up stagger game and confirm options when pressuring, consistency issues with counter-hit combos and standard combos

Increase st.mp x st.hp TC cancel frames by maybe 2f/3f? Opens up confirm options in pressure game, rewards skillful play

Possibly extend LP.Hozanto hitbox slightly backwards so less crossunders happen when used as an AA, this is a consistent issue I’m finding with LP.Hozanto atm

That’s all I’d ask for on old Zeku, I think it’s just his normals that have issues to be completely honest, they lack a little bit of consistency and they all have a bit too much pushback and his blockstrings are a bit weak because of how slow st.mk is, his most threatening mid for damage potential.

I heard he has fundamentally broken issues with his normals in how the frame data is handled with them but idk the specifics, so if that’s a thing - that too.

156

For me personally:

Young Zeku: cr.mp +2 on block.
St.hp xx run stop -2 on block.
Target combo having more leniency would be a very good thing that he could definitely use.

I don’t feel like st.mp having less pushback would be good for the game. It would have to be nerfed somehow for it to get the kinds of stats it has (+3 on block, 5 frame startup, followed up by a 6 frame ranged plus on block medium, on hit) his pressure would be incredible if that happened. He’d have like necalli st.mk stagger pressure but on steroids.

Old zeku:
Slightly faster walkspeed
Koku startups all buffed with 2 less frames of startup. Koku just in general seems like it could use a buff of some sort.
Agreed that his st.mp could use a bit less pushback.

Both:

Ex stance switch that is 5 frames faster than his current stance switch, also moves forward a slight bit.
Super bonus: moves forward a bit and hits and is plus 2 from young to old and plus 1 from old to young.

This won’t happen of course but it isn’t unheard of for characters to get new moves in this game (ibuki ex store)

157

isn’t the way to get -2 run/stop in this game to use EX run? I doubt they’d give him a -2 run/stop, but it’s not that bad considering he has no EX reversal to force a 50/50 with, if you react you take your turn back - simples. Basically the same as most dashes tbh.

st.mp is pretty bad and ruins his pressure though, standard path seems to be st.lk - st.mp but you get pushed out of threat range just by pressing it once. The +3 means nothing if you can’t use that advantage, see Akuma for reference. His cr.mp wouldn’t be good at all if it had pushback.

158

Im trying to figure out how to respond to this without a wall of text. I guess I’ll leave out explanations and just say things and hopefully they make sense without having to explain them.

YZ has no standard path (neither does OZ really)
The best overall path for YZ is cr.mp,cr.lp xx L hozanto> stuff. does ok damage and beats 3 framers and confirms while not having huge pushout, to make the most of this string you have to confirm cr.mp into st.mp on hit, and cr.mp into cr.lp on block. Then autopilot another cr.mp after the cr.lp in case it CH and confirm into run slide.
St.mp, cr.mp is the standard medium medium. The basic mixup is do both hits on autopilot to train for no buttons, or to confirm the first block and use stagger pressure once the opponent is trained.
The big problem here is that there seems to be not much followup if the cr.mp connects. The only thing that I know that reaches is link into super.

YZ
St.lk,st.mp is a good string but should really only be used in situations where the st.lk has a decent chance of CH. so basically off of stagger pressure or when the opponent is waking up, or on defense. As a simple poke starter it isn’t great because it has pushback and doesnt combo on normal hit. Better is probably st.lkx2… kinda like how punk uses karins st.lk against his opponents wakeup.

Still put in explanations :frowning:

159

I use st.lk > st.mp, you can set up a tick via st.lk, and if the st.lk CHs you get a st.mp link that’s an easy confirm into full TC, better overall payoff for the route and if it’s meaty that st.lk is going to counter-hit if it’s gonna hit at all tbh.

When it comes to staggering strings st.lk seems #1 as well, low pushback low blockstun, keeps the pace fast.

cr.lp > cr.mp is alright, but the payoff is low for a character with as much damage output as Y.Zeku, you’re picking up crumbs with just a slide confirm or a LP.Hozanto. You want those beefy EX.Palm combos for nutty corner carry and good follow-ups.

I guess everyones blockstring options differ, that’s the fun of it.

Also, does O.Zeku f.throw in the corner set-up a meaty cr.hp? As you can tell I’m a by-eye kinda guy and don’t use data apps much.

160

Yeah I know about all those options and I do use them because as I said, zeku doesnt have a standard option, really.

But something I want to point out is that always going for optimal damage makes you predictable. Well at least more predictable.

But there are more ways to optimise rather than just in combo damage and confirms. There is also optimal pressure strings, ie moves that don’t have huge pushback nor have huge gaps.

The thing in this game is that you very very very rarely get to have both optimal damage routes that synchronise with optimal pressure routes.

So you have to pick between either or, or try to maintain a balance of both. The balanced version is the hardest because it means you have the most options to juggle and therefor be fluent with.

The optimal damage route is great for damage but you will end up getting blocked a lot and won’t have a higher hit to block ratio unless you are clearly better than your opponent and seeing the upclose position nearly at will.

Optimal pressure routes means you will be getting in a bit more and having more chances on block, but you will be doing lower damage overall.

There is no “right or wrong” here in a theory perspective. It’s just a choice of styles. But the style a lot of players opt for is the optimal damage. It means they need to get in less (or more depending on how you view it ) and it means that if they are better than their opponent then they will be getting in anyways so it’s best to go for optimal damage. The optimal pressure stuff starts to come in when you know your opponent is as good as or better than you are. You will need more chances against them.

Easy every character example is jumpin crossup. Do you land into a jab and take a simple jab jab xx special confirm, or do you land into a pushout medium into bigger damage?

I answer that via the following questions:

Can I hit confirm this jumpin?
Can I get in easily against this character or person?
Is this crossup ambiguous with timing or spacing or relatively obvious?

I tend to use pressure/pokestrings in the same way and for me personally I usually choose pressure over damage.