Harness Your Quan! Zeku General Discussion Thread

The flip mixup isn’t a high/low. It’s a left/right. The basic mixup is this:

If they block low they are giving you CRAZY plus frames against ex flip and good plus frames against regular flip. So they actually need to block it high so they don’t give you plus frames and that’s when you grab them. The big problem is that they can just jab out very easily. That’s the real problem with his flips.

For the ex flip you get a faster flip, more blockstun advantage, and the opponent can’t walk forward out of the elbow and you get a free trap if they try to walk out.

It’s not an easy mixup to train the opponent into. Use your regular flips to see what your opponent like to try to do then use ex flip to get the damaging stuff in.

I do think that his grab should maybe beat attacks though. Maybe only the ex version.

Zeku in general is missing a lot of small shit. Like a high priority aerial attack as an example.

Flips are +oB when hits lower,so staying crouch puts the opponent into Zeku mixups,meterless or not. Having kick or elbow overhead wasn’t OP looking at Akuma, but whatever. Totally agree with Dime on the Koku startup/recovery stats, the move is strong but not enough to justify such a -oB value. Old is for ranged matchups,but a lot of his normals put the opponent too far after blocking one hit. Personally I use the flip grab the most against big characters who instinctively block standing against every jump attack. I was able to grab Abigail run and Gief Lariat with ease. Against those who try to challenge Jakura A2A I just use the kick followup early to get the juggle and combo with lk dp afterwards, if I have CA stocked I can go for big damage with ease.

On the plus side, no nerfs, on the down side, no buffs.

Looks like our throws stayed intact too which means we get the forward throw meaty after patch. Time to lab match up specific stuff.

Also guys, just saying it here, one of Old Zekus most important anti quickrise knockdowns is ex teki>hk koku

The entire combo starting from st.mk does 301 damage and after a dash zeku is point blank at +2 so he has a legit throw/cr.lp mixup here neither of which can be beat by 3 frame jabs. If they backrise then a cr.hp will CH any normal they wakeup with. This is a strong mixup if they like to quickrise.

So we are playing S.3 Zeku and we didnt know lol

everyone in 2017 and we already in 2018.

So my newest shit that I’ve been running through players with is YZ

Cr.lp,st.lp xx TC confirm. This shit is great. 180 damage from lights is nothing to scoff at and the best thing is that against quickrise you can dash cr.mp and it will beat 3 framers (st.hp against backdash)

So I’ve been running that confirm off of dash in and crossup. If the crossup is blocked you cr.lp then either frame trap or shimmy. This is very good risk versus reward for the damage it puts out and the best thing is that you always maintain pressure and are building meter for the end of round super.

This shit is seriously gross.

I mix it up with cr.mp,cr.lp confirm and go into super off of that or v trigger.

I’ve tried this morning to test YZ j.mp juggle a little bit and found a tricky mixup. When we’re able to juggle the opponent with it we can reset with st.lp, hitting the falling down opponent earlier and dash make us cross under (then cr.mp hits meaty), hitting a little bit later make YZ dash staying in front. There’s no reason to use run stop here, it’s practically what Karin does in the corner already but midscreen. Not a game changer, but if happen I think it’s important to know.

@Dime, by TC you mean bushin chain (lp, mp, hp, hk) ? In anycase, be very careful of your cr.lp. If it hits CH, st.lp hits and st.mp whiffs (due to CH push back). On a positive note, I read somewhere that this CH push back might be addressed in AE. If so, this confirm, which is obviously very good, will be golden. I would like to add that in the corner, you can meaty a fierce palm that covers both wake up timings after bushin chain.

At the moment, I think that Zeku’s main weakness is his lack of a cancelable low forward. This is why an experienced fighter in the Zeku MU will often walk out of range after the first blocked attack. This behavior also seems to avoid the cr.lp - tick throw (but I still have to test that again in training). Right now, Zeku can only punish this with cr.mk, leading to nothing (+2 on hit yay !), for mediocre damage… unless he has is Vtrigger. Thoughts ?

Mmm zeku cr.lk, cr.lp, L hozanto/vskill makes up for the low pressure, and once zeku gets vtrigger the feet pressure is ridiculous. Old zeku has cr.lk, s.lp, L bushin gram. I hope our vtrigger doesnt get nerfed to 3 bars in a next patch… it is REALLY good for a 2 bars vtrigger

This doesn’t prevent the opponent from crouch blocking first attack and then walking back.

Zeku biggest offensive weakness is definitely his lack of low game. It’s a pretty big hindrance I’m not gonna lie, but he slightly makes up for it with flip stuff in old form, and slide in young form.

Once he gets v trigger he can pop people good for it as well.

In old form you can cr.lp,cr.lk,st.lp and you can probably autopilot the cancel into Koku nice it’s going to be range anyways. Not great damage but it’s a kd and adds up, you will have to micro step into the car.lk though which is problematic. Can basically do the same string in young as well except cr.lk,cr.lp

The big problem is that after basically any medium he has no low confirms at all. But this is actually a big problem with most of the cast, even those that have lows have to 1 hit confirm them or risk taking a big punish. This is one reason why characters like ryu can have decent pressure… they can cr.mk xx fireball or ex fireball for relatively free.

If Zeku could cancel cr.mk though, Jesus he’d be pretty broken for this game, but old form could use it, or at least a walk speed buff. But tbh it’s like I said, his flip is what he’s supposed to use to pressure people. I personally also use cr.mk for small shitty damage, and sweep if the opponent is being super obnoxious with the walk back.

If anyone has some time, can you please look at my last few games against a cammy named sacha?

Seriously have no idea what to do against this. All her pokes beat mine and can never jump at her unless it’s over a poke. It’s seriously fucked that none of Old Zekus pokes can beat hers and he’s got the slow walkspeed. Then ping Zekus pokes are also fucked. Can’t seem to do anything about her st.mk.

I’m finding more and more shit to not like about zeku. Newest issue is that an early j.mk doesn’t land me with enough blockstun to frame trap 3 frame lights… basically the opponent gets to mash lights all day long after blocking that jumpin. Which is pretty dumb since OZ jump is 1 frame slower than average and he has no other great jumpin buttons and he has no great pokes. Like seriously my kokus either get stuffed in startup or they get jumped over. Cr.mp is his best poke but it’s slow as shit.

I’m just not getting some of the design decisions of this character. Who cares if you have everything but all of it is mediocre or below? Koku needs a speed buff. And cr.mp needs to be cancelable if it’s going to be that slow or it needs to be 2 frames faster if it’s not going to be cancelable.

And both characters could use better walkspeed.

I’m just frustrated right now. Outpoked, can’t jump, dash is slower at 17 frames, cancels have no range.

Like he should have some serious strengths to balance this out and other than being slightly “all around” and having admittedly crazy damage, I don’t see it.

His jump ins are arguably the worst of the cast, his only downward hiting normals (OZ mk hk, YZ mk) having only 4 active frames, a bad hitbox (cross up is shitty) and slow start up. He has many other problems but he is still fun to play, having many moves and variety. That said, I think that he is probably mid/low tier at the moment.

Maybe im ok with small shitty damage out of lows since i play Ibuki xD she is the same as zeku in this regard. And also vega and i almost always stay claw on

Imo YZ needs a divekick to keep on with the pressure in safe ways. Fishing for mistakes doesnt get you very far agaisnt real pros

I agree with YZ needing a divekick or “something” he’s basically cammy without a low and more hp. I guess he has more da,age as well. But something to stop the easy AA would be good.

Not that I like divekicks or anything but having something along those lines that is hard to AA would be welcome.

Just realized the dude who wrote the combo thread is an anime dude. Comas are used for links in SF, not => :mad:

I’m not sure yet what Zeku needs other than longer hitboxes on his Old Form normals. Making Cr.MK +1 or +2 would great. The thing is 8 frames and short as shit. Have it do something other than hit low.

We good for now, we still need to totally control Zeku and his forms. OZ cr.mk is slow and short,but it’s hard to beat that button because hasn’t any hurtbox extension before active frames. This normal exist just for VT cancel purposes and poking, so I’m not triggered at all, every character has an almost useless normal.