Not quite! For example slow-or-teleport used to be the situation in shooters 19 years ago, right after Carmack introduced the rollback model to them, but they’ve come a long way since then as tech was developed to hide the teleports and/or better predict input. Rollback-based netplay is still in its infancy for fighting games but as more devs convert to it technical refinements will come.
Ahem…NET SPEED CANNOT COMPENSATE FOR PING TIMES.
Let’s say I’m living in the middle Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan, and I have 1 Gbps internet, and I’m playing someone in Kansas city on 1 Gbps Google Fiber. The latency could still be poor because of all the hops the data has to take between Central Asia and Midwestern America.
Ideally, yes, if every connection backboned and could have one hop movement toward the destination, then better internet speeds would equate to better play, but we’re not living in those conditions and don’t ever expect it to happen either.
Does rollback work like that? Because when I tried playing sf3tsoe on ps3 with Americans (I’m western EU, with sf4 this used to be possible with very little lag if american was from east coast) and my opponents kept on teleporting. Is it also possible to change this option for ps3 ts online?
I have had nothing but bad experiences with rollback netcode for fighters. I just don’t think it works well when your opponent lives far away. Rollback might be better if you’re close, but further distance normal netcode worked better. And even further distance nothing really works. That’s when you get real underwater 100* gravity drag-on ball fighting. Or super teleporter, which sucks even more.
I was actually dumb enough to believe rollback would be the answer for everything, but distance is just not overcome with netcode or even high speed internet connections.
I’m from the Netherlands, only countries who I can play decent lag free games with are my next door neighbours, the Germans, the Brits, Belgium and the French. Lag starts to heavily influence rounds as soon as I get to Spain and further. Which roughly translates to under 1.500km or 1000 mile is playable. Anything over it and lag kills it. This applies to internet connection of 30 Mbps to 120 mbs, it doesn’t fucking matter even if you have 120. It’s all about distance. So even if you have connection speeds 4* faster you still have the same lag as someone with 4* slower internet.
So from my understanding distance > netcode > internet connection. At least in the developed world. In 3rd world countries I think internet connection comes first before distance and netcode in determining how shitty the lag will be.
This is not true and is also why ggpo is far superior to everything else. Using SF4 as an example, me playing someone in Europe is an absolute largest. Easily somewhere between 4-8 frames of delay depending on what country they live in. Playing A3 on ggpo, I have no complaints at all and on occasion, if everything is perfect I can play someone in Korea and Japan. This is all with me living on the east coast of the U.S. Oh and I have my ggpo setting at 0 frames of input delay, during the very rare instances where I’m having consistent roll backs, I’ll dial it up to 1 frame, but since its inception I’ve only had to do that no more than 3 times.
There no excuse to not like ggpo because if you like playing with input delay, you have that option.
Third Strike is the one game (that I’m aware of) that has never worked that well on GGPO. that being said, 3s would be just as unplayable online with input delay netcode.
It’s not about mbps. It’s about ping times.
As Missing Person said.
If you’re playing someone on a 300+ ping connection, and you’re trying to do it with only 3 frames of delay, then you are going to get teleports up the wazoo.
Just do the math
(300/2)/16.67=8.9982
This means that you need to set your delay to 8 or 9 frames to avoid having teleports all over. If you’re trying to play with only 2 or 3 frames of delay, then of course you’re going to get teleports as the game keeps desyincing. It takes at least 150ms for your inputs to reach your opponent.
The problem with 3SOE, and other IG ports of Capcom games is that to adjust the delay, you have to go out of online and go to the options menu. A better example would be Skullgirls which, not only automatically tries to give you the best delay based on your ping, but also gives you the option to adjust it right before the match.
OK, in IG games netcode does seem to suck for something advertising that they are using ggpo. Hence me not liking ggpo as I’ve had nothing but bad experiences with ggpo.
But thanks for the explanation, I get the setting set up for delays now.
What I don’t understand is how you got the 16.67 number? 300 refers to the ping, divide by 2, is this because of the number of players or you just always divide it by 2? What I don’t get is dividing that number by 16.67, what does this number represent? Or is it just part of the formula? As in it always must be divided by 16.67? If so, again, what does that number mean.
Actually, the consensus is that, aside from that issue with the delay setting being in the wrong place, that the IG games (3SOE, MvC Origins and Darkstalkers Resurrection) are some of the best games to play online because of GGPO.
16.67 is the number you get when you divide 1000 by 60. This is because the games are running at 60fps and you’re dividing one second (1000 milliseconds) into frames. So each frame has last 16.67 milliseconds.
We divide by two because rollback netcode does not need a return signal from the other player. Hence you’re only counting ping times one way. So if it takes 300ms to ping your opponent, then it takes approximately 150ms (half the time) for a packet of data to get to them.
Thanx for the explanation, now I actually understand all this shit.
But as you said, it does no good because the only game I have that uses ggpo as far as I know is TS. And you can’t set delay per match so basically it doesn’t fucking matter.
You’re giving 3soe way too much props. They fucked up way too much with that game.
3sOE is the one game where ggpo was poorly implemented. I don’t know if its because Iron galaxy’s first attempt at it or what but it just doesn’t work good, especially the PS3 version. Its so teleport/jittery that people would rather play on fightcade/FBA.
There are many games where ggpo works very well and runs smoothly with no or close to none noticable visual distortions.
Neogeo/CPS1/2 games on PC ggpo/fightcade, Darkstalkers:Res, Skullgirls etc.
The technology to have (the illusion of) near-offline timings already exists
Dude you play 3S on the PS3.
Every online fighting game on the PS3 sucks fucking donkey balls except for anime fighters and Skullgirls.
IMO XBL > Fightcade > PS3 for 3s online play. this is post-patch, both versions of OE were worse than GGPO before the patch.
I don’t know why it’s so bad but PS3 OE is a pretty big mess. things that are very simple to punish on arcade or even on XBL are like 100% safe on PSN.
OK, this is not the case with sf4 series. The 360 and ps3 version both lag but both are playable. There really is hardly any differences between the 2 version that is that noticeable when you play online. Even the 1 frame offline difference is hardly noticeable online. TS online is unplayable on the tripple, I can vouch for that. Before and after patch, it doesn’t fucking matter, lol.
Because of the ps3 version I actually thought that literally ALL ggpo fighters were teleporters. I honestly didn’t get why everybody was riding that ggpo shit. I know that before the patch even on 360 tsoe would teleport. Friend sold his 360 so haven’t tried it after the patch. Before the patch it was just as shitty as the ps3 version.
It doesn’t have to teleport. Set your input delay higher and it’ll feel just like SF4
Except that the lag is consistent throughout the match instead of fluctuating, which is a blessing and makes me wonder why devs wouldn’t implement a rollback code with forcibly slightly too high delay settings. Prevents casual players from experiencing teleports which really ruins normal people’s game experience but improves the overall experience by stabilizing input lag (and maybe lowers it by a frame or two, which is also great)
IMO, there should be an option to pick delay settings similar to how Skullgirls does it. If actual frame delay numbers are too much, have it based on two settings, fast (recommended delay based on 1/2 of ping time) and smooth (delay based on actual ping time), with the amount of delay listed based on the actual ping between the two players.
I think the best thing that could happen is to by defat have the games input delay based and have a toggle in the options to use roll back netcode and allow you to set your frame delay.
Even better would be to force ggpo on everyone since most people don’t know what’s good for them anyways.