Have you guys notice that when you put a low to close mid tier charachter in K they dramatically change and become a mid tier charachter.
hmmmmm
K-Groove=:lame
Hi 7witch 
I was just like you when I first joined this Forum…
no, wait, i wasn’t…
have fun at this Forum ok 7witch I Foresee a lot of people welcoming you soon.
And BTW
Good luck.
I was intrigued by this anti-air low forward, low jab super thing. However, something didn’t seem right in my head: the super shouldn’t reach far enough to connect after a low forward, then low jab. Sure enough, after some testing it only connects on the fattest characters in the game: Blanka, Rolento, Honda, Gief and Raiden. Still a neat and innovative idea though.
To keep the discussion going, here’s some more anti-Haohmaru points that I didn’t list:
-His cross up completely whiffs against skinny characters. Kyo, Vega, Cammy, Sakura, Kim, Rock, Athena and Mai (not a comprehensive list) all cannot be crossed up normally.
-I stand by my earlier statement of his fireball being the worst fireball in the history of fighting games. Even WITH the fake. There is such tremendous recovery time on the fireball (almost a full second after the release) that the opponent can wait to see the tornado leave Haohmaru’s sword, THEN jump or roll and still have plenty of time to combo Haoh. Even if Haohmaru does successfully fakes the opponent into jumping, he gets 900 from hitting his low fierce. Even if he somehow fakes the opponent three times, he only gets 2700 dmg total. If Haohmaru decides to throw a fireball once and the opponent jumps over on reaction, Haohmaru is taking at least 3000 something. It’s simply not worth it.
And what purpose does Haoh’s fireball serve anyway? The general purpose of a fireball is as a midrange poke, and it’s definitely way too slow to do that. A secondary purpose is as a long ranged zoning move, so you can get it out on the screen and force the opponent to deal with, and counter whatever they try to do. Haoh’s fireball has way too much recovery time to do that. Even if you throw a jab fireball, by the time Haoh recovers, the fireball is 95% across the screen already. Running after it, or even countering attempts to avoid it pretty much isn’t an option. Then there’s fireballs as a meaty move. This doesn’t work for the same reasons as stated above.
Ok. Debate over that and I’ll give you more. Lots more.
hi Buktooth.
Again, Everyone here knows that he has the worst fireball in the game. It’s not up for dispute or anything. However what most people are mentioning (and what you have just mentioned) , is how bad it is, when used as a ‘conventional’ method. Or rather, a fireball as a general purpose. So it really isn’t up for discussion.
Actually, we can discuss all day about what his Pros and Cons are, but one thing isn’t going to change, His Cons are for moves that we can do without most of the time. So his fireball is slow to come out, when I play, i use the fireball only 3-4 times per match. And it’s weird that although you mention the fireball is 95% across the screen, when I’m done doing it, I can somehow manage to run in and start zoning again. No one has ever punished me doing it because they’re too far. And if they jumped toward me, I have effectively made them move out of their ‘Turtle’ mode. There are absolutely no cons the way I have done it, that can’t be bad.
And his cross ups. It is fortunate perhaps that I don’t seem to need to do this too often to most (If not all) characters that I can outpoke, or out jump HP.
It is so difficult to discuss how a Character can be good based on This alone, because not everyone here has played him seriously in K. Someone who plays him in A will say something. Someone who plays him in P will say something. The situation suddenly changes because of the addition of JD, Run in, Parry etc.
So far everything I have said, I have effectively utilized in the arcade. It’s a matter of timing and opportunity, and a matter of K groove.
But of course, what you say still stands. His fireball is the laggiest in the game. And he can’t cross some people up. But these don’t make what he has weaker the way I play him.
Hmmm, ok I’ll ask you the same thing I asked Jreinert13, what’s the strongest haoh you’ve seen so far, and how did he play to win?
You use it 3-4 times a match? Man, I never use it. It really does suck, but we all know that. I have accidently done it in an up-close combo before, even though it was blocked. I forgot who he used, but he was not a good player & he tried retaliating with a RH sweep. Since Haoh steps back a ton after the fireball of course the sweep wiffed & I was able to land a s.HP.
Hey Cool that happened to me once too!!!
But I have to rephrase, it’s not really 3-4 times a match…
umm, which is a match which is a round?
Ok, It’s 3-4 times an entire game more like it.
There’s not really a way to note any merits for Haoh’s fireball in this game, except maybe that it can set up CCs in the corner…
You can’t start pressure with his fireball. It’s a liability more than anything else.
Haoh’s only reliable way to start pressure is to corner someone. He can also go for knockdowns, but his c.RH is pretty laggy (okay, conceivably you can use it at max range, but that can probably be blocked on reaction) and again, no counter-hit combos of note, so people are free to keep Haoh from throwing them by mashing jabs or something, or at the very least trying to tech.
Can you do without s.strong? It’s not the easiest thing to punish on whiff but it’s not that hard. “Just don’t get baited” is theory fighter. Everyone gets baited once in a while.
Doing without the crossup limits Haohmaru to a linear style that will get raped the second he messes up.
The best Haoh I’ve ever seen? Eddie Lee had a pretty decent A Haoh. He didn’t shoot any fireballs that I remember…
I use his c sp a bit more than s sp. I use him in C, but I do think he’s best in K or P.
Words used in theory fighter
'Baited’
A word which i didn’t start using really. It’s people who are always saying haoh is easily baited.
Whether you believe me or not, I’m going to say this. nobody i play baits a S.HP from me, or even tries to, because it’s not something that I predictably throw out. It’s also something no one can bait from me because I don’t throw it out ‘on reaction to a move’. I throw it out ‘on reaction to a block or tip graze’. I mean seriously, what would you do to bait a S.HP from a K Haoh?
Again, if i were to explain it, it’s also theory fighter.
In my previous Thread to Buktooth, i actually removed a sentence that stated
‘For all the people I’ve seen say Haoh has difficulty so far, I’ve realised something in common, they;re thinking of him in A Groove.’
Ok at least now you’ve told me the best Haoh you’ve seen is in A Groove.
Now, A Groove. No Short Jump. No Run. No JD.
Haoh without a run severely limits his poking game.
Haoh without a short jump severely limits his rushdown.
Haoh without a JD makes him easily pushed away.
His CC does nice damage yes. but again i state, i’ve heard of so many people saying he should turtle. I’m starting to wonder if that’s why people don’t see his other capabilities.
As for fireballs, notice even gadgy is surprised I threw at least 3-4 fireballs per game. This should tell you that us K groove Haoh users don’t use Fireballs as part of our Basic tactics. I only do it to make ‘runaways’ react. And it’s not what I have to do. it’s something i just like to do.
Seriously guys, the fireball discussion should be over. We don’t really use it. If anything, I only mentioned my use for it, for the benefit of other Haoh users who may want to work it into their overall gameplay by inserting something random to break the match pace.
I’m surprised no one mentions his jumping sp. I find this works really well for aa on many characters(not all, sucks against characters like Nak & Bison) & is a good alternative to his c fp.
“Haoh without a run severely limits his poking game.
Haoh without a short jump severely limits his rushdown.
Haoh without a JD makes him easily pushed away.”
Word. He’s harder to play in C since he doesn’t have those, but I hold my own with him. It’s nice to have roll & counter to get out of sticky situations. Also I love using his dash since it’s one of the best in the game.
Hey you’re right about the Jump back MP, i should learn to work that in more somehow huh?
Hey gadgy it’s nice U play him in C, I suppose C and A actually have their own mind games huh? What with the Dash and all.
Teach me man…
I’ve tried him in A and where I can’t run, i walk.lol.
Keep in mind I play on & offline on Xbox so there are no rcs in my realm of play.
I use his fk crossup as much as possible, then land into c. sk x3 into c jp. That’s if you don’t combo to super or don’t have it, etc. Say those 4 hits are blocked. Afterwards I’ll either dash forward & kick throw, try for another fk crossup, c sp, or dash back & s fp if they do something like a dp(I see people dp a lot after those 4 blocked hits trying to hit the s sp or my dash throw). Once they get used to that, then inside I’ll start with the tick throws or jump straight up at certain ranges, or make short pauses between hits to throw off their timing or to bait moves. Jumping straight up is really good with Haoh. If they miss something you can fp, c fp, to super or if they do get a dp I can air block. But his dash to throw along with his other pokes really helps my zoning with him. After a kick throw I like to sit there next to 'em & do something cause many people are surprised at how fast their character stands up. So I kick throw 'em again when they get up, jump straight up again, or the 4 jab hits again, etc.
People act like comboing into super is the only time to use a super. I like using it at other times too like in between someone’s poke pattern or against a Calipower style rushdown. Some might say it’s a random super. Whatever, it’s calculated. But I do usually keep my super for my next character after Haoh unless I see a real good opportunity. Besides it’s nice doing a little extra damage with regular moves while I have full bar.
So that’s some stuff. There are variants depending on opponents style, characters, groove, & overall abilities.
And another thing, I think Haoh is good against Sak. She can’t jump on him cause his c fp hits her regular jump attacks, daigonal jump hit, & both air & ground spin kicks. Plus he outranges her with pokes. If your Haoh’s s sp is getting poked by Sak’s s rk, you’re not zoning very well.
Also does anyone disagree that Nak is his worst matchup?
Wow, I’m so immensley glad that there are other Hoahmaru users out there, and that further more they play in K-Groove.
I’ve been playing the big lug for ages in K-Groove, he’s by far my best and most favorable character to use. Landing a s.HP on anyone is such an immensley gratifying feeling.
Though, as much I love playing him, I do say he has faults.
- If you’re playing against a real good K groover, well Hoahmaru’s patience needs to be quadrupled. I started playing him because I loved the way my friend played him back in 2002. Back then though, I used N groove. At the time I rolled too much, so I switched to K groove and that was that.
Once I did, my friend found that using Hoahmaru against me was an extremely ugly case to deal with. Yes he’s got some good pokes to worth, but they really are slow. And no, my friend doesn’t play predictably either, but Hoahmaru just doesn’t have all that vairety to him anyway. If he can’t touch my guard meter because I keep jd’ing, well then it’s going to be a long match.
- Fast, skinny, annoying people. Basically Nakaruru, Mai, Vega, Cammy.
Nakaruru can run damn laps around the guy, so it’s very hard for him to keep up the pace or control something that won’t necessarily stay grounded.
Mai is the middle ground of Ruru and Vega. Not exactly as nimble as Ruru, and not as fast as Vega. Just enough of either to give Hoahmaru a problem.
Vega is Vega. He’s got the range and the speed to give Hoahmaru plenty of grief. Small empty jumping into throw is murder.
Cammy’s on the list simply because she’s a stupid, annoying bitch who gives anyone problems.
I still love playing with the guy.
Also his qcf+p x2 (lvl 3) super has some crazy stun to it. You can knick someone with the tip of it at the start, and it’ll likely have them stuck there in stun until the super reaches them a second later.
His 63214+6 +P super has some great invincibility to it too. If anyone does a meat fireball super to you, throw this out for wake up, almost guaranteed instant death.
So yeah, he’s plenty fun to play in my eyes, and frankly I think he wipes the floor with sorry Blanka. Really. One jd’ed ball or one 'jd’ed pscyho crusher = s.FP goodness.
A neat little trick I have is to small jump directly above a character I’ve just knocked as they come up and hit them with a j.HP. Works alot more often then you imagine it would, many don’t see it coming.
Are you sure you’re not me in disguise???
no wait…
Am i sure I’m not me in your guise…
LOL
DANG That last move of yours is my FAVOURITE haoh move.
Especially when I play on the speed 5 machine. And then people start calling me cheap. Then I feel bad lol. Well, not really.
Cos after that I play on the speed 4 machine and do everything too fast.
Haaaahahahahahaha
And yes Gadgy Nak irritates me, as does Vega.
Mai and Cammy, hmmm not as much as the above annoyings.
Yeah it was quite the surprise to find out someone plays Haohmaru almost the same way I do with the same groove I do.
Though to be truthful (as of late) I really don’t move much with him, I let them come to me. Seriously. If the guy doesn’t come to me I just stand there, letting the idle animation kick with that damn windy breeze he seems to carry with him (that noone else in the game has, may I add).
Haha. I’m loving his jab alot too. I actually use it as anti air for far away jump ins, and to annoy someone who decides to roll in empy on me.
Honestly I’ve only played three other Hoahmaru’s in the two years or so I’ve played the game. Two at my local arcade (in NYC) and my friend (who I play weekly). I’ve seen plenty other Hoahmaru’s, especially the random smacker at CTF, but they sucked a fat one.
I used to put him at the end of my team with Ratio 2 attached, but I find that he doesn’t really need it, so I put him first, Mai trailing second, Cammy last.
All decked in red, though sometimes I’ll go with the yellow tan colors Mai and Haohmaru seem to somehow match very nicely with.
ok. been playing him as of late just for kicks. i think he is beastly in n groove. also, i got the turtle haoh mindest off and started rushing and zoning. conclusion, haoh is better than most people give him credit for. he has great match ups against characters like kyo, (scrubby) guile, blanka, and yama. you still have to be extremely careful with the fierce slash though. if you miss you’re in deep trouble. and air battles with haoh are a no no. he rarely loses.
btw, i think he counters rolento hard. my friend plays rolento and he can beat my sagat if i get crazy. with haoh, i don’t have to do much. if i turtle down, i rape. if he tries to run away, i’ll either stomp him out of the air or land a fierce slash.
also, the main reason i like him in n is he becomes a great fighter who rarely needs meter, so my next character comes in with at least 2 bar. i guess you guys were right about haoh. i still feel he’s mid tier, but he’s definately gone up in the ranks as far as im concerned.
I tried him on K he’s pretty good but i mostly roll with him and throw alot due to the fact that almost of his moves suck ass but thats my opinion i think he’s decent in C and N though
I think hohmaru is one of the best characters in the game, even though is real slow, he makes up for it in power and reach.
he is the most effective character to use for facing shin gouki and god rugal.
if you pick him with the k groove, his supers are DEADLY!!
they take down alot of damage, he is a great character, his only downfall is speed and recovery from his moves.
With or wihtout rc gameplay, he is not 1 of the best in the gamem sorry.
Is this your logic to why he’s 1 of the best characters? Who cares about those 2 characters anyway?
something
I like haoh alot, and while i want to say he is one of the best…saddly he is’nt. But in the end i guess its all up to the skill of the player, cause i bust many c,k and p sagats cammys and may others ( blanka for some reason alwyas gets to me…)
I gots me a odd way of playing with haoh anyway, i have been downing people with my rush jd then crouching kick poke, poke quater circle back weak jab. When im trying to turtle, i kinda just sit there , if they throw a fire ball…jd. If they jump in…i crouching firce em and have it then try and rush me done , for the most part i can jd the frist attack but when im feeling iffy about it i toss out a poke or two to keep em at bay…my style isn’t the best out there but it works.
For the most part i rush in and jd the attack the toss out on me, and if for some reason they let me get up close on em i slam em (is it me or dose his grab just look real painful , i mean both of em just make happy your not the one getting hit like that…)
in anycase that how i play haoh and why i think he is a great character…just not the best