That was clearly the gayest thing that i’ve EVER seen… Well second gayest, after all, I am a friend of Jimmy’s. And that kid has pole smoker written all over him.
A hand vs Jamie
Let’s go into a little background first, I feel this hand was very interesting, and on the ride home, me and Matt discussed it for a LONG time, and we both came into agreement on the hand.
Ok, Our stacks are like this
Me ($215)
Jamie ($95)
Other random donko ($100 or so)
Now, the last hand, I picked up KK, bumped it to $10, got called by some drunk chick. Flop came A-6d-7d, and I bet 15 and she shoved for 50, i folded. I usually like to raise the next hand regardless, usually because the second raise USUALLY brings out strength. Now for the hand in question, and I want to put this through Jamie’s perspective, before mine:
Jamie has TT, and the flop is 4-3-2 rainbow. He doesn’t know I’m on tilt, or had KK. He’s playing off the fact that it’s just me. Now, he notices the other guy check really fast and sighs. Well, that puts him out of the equation. Then he sees me lead out for $30.
I want to go over all the options:
Fold: Not a bad play, but pretty weak. I personally don’t MIND a fold, mainly because he has so small a stack that anything he does, will just put him all in. Jamie had been playing really tight, so TT probably looks fantastic for him right now, it’s not the best option
All-in: Might look like the premium option at first, but let’s look at what happens with my range of hands. Remember we are looking at this through Jamie’s point of view:
If I have a pair of 5s, he’s ahead, but not by much, also, I’m going to be calling, with my draw.
If I had a pair of 6s, I might or might not call, so who knows
If I have a pair between 7s and 9s, which he beats, without a draw, it’ll be really hard for me to call, why? Because our image as Jamie is that he’s a very tight player, and he would not be shoving with AK or AQ or AJ. I would be more likely to fold a pair like 7s or 8s rather than a pair of 5s or 6s.
If I have a pair over Jacks, I call, it’s pretty standard, especially with the pot size laying me 2 to 1 and the fact that we smooth called preflop.
If I have air, or AK or AQ or Aj, I would most likely fold.
If I ahve a set, or A5, or 56s, I call.
Now, there is not a lot of value in that play now that we think about it right? It looks like the only hand that will call us, probably has us crushed, or we’re ahead, but not by that much. It’s not that optimal.
The best Option isssssss
Call: A call, even with that small a stack, definately would be the best play with my range. That of course is, IF you have already decided that a) We have the best hand with TT, and b) We’re going all the way with it. Also, if an A or K spikes, we can MAYBE get away from it, although we won’t be very happy with the result. Also, if a blank comes, you will get a ton of information on me, that will make your decision easier. If I had a hand like AK or AQ, or a hand like 55, it would be very hard to call another $50 into a $100 pot, given our reputation. Also, it might commit a ahnd like 7s 8s or 9s into a call.
Now, I’m not doing this because I’m a jerk, there’s always more to a b ad beat then just “oh he spiked the card on the river”. The result was, Jamie shoved, and I was priced into a call with 46 os, and got there. The reason why I called, was I was getting 2 to 1, and Jamie sat and thought for about 5 mins, which made me realize he had the mid pair, and I was completely live to all of my outs. The 6 hit the river, and I brought in a very good pot.
It’s just something to think about, before you tell all your friends that I am the biggest retard on the planet, for everything. I understand why you’d be mad, and you “may have made the good read”, but that’s how it goes. This was definately not a standard hand, and while at first I thought it was well played, there’s always another side, and this is basically what we discussed the whole way home.
Anyways, that’s it. Make sure to come out to Justin’s super bowl bash so you can punch me in the face or somethin.
Ya that hand was deep.
Another reason why calling is the better option in that spot is that by calling you show strength and make him realize that his top pair with a gutshot isnt the best hand at the time. Should the turn come any card that isn’t paint it is likely that they will check to you (the strength shown by calling probably puts you on a high overpair) and on top of this you have position. This is where you can get the rest of your money in (which would of gone in anyways) and prevent him from seeing the river.
I’m not telling anyone how to play or even saying I woulda played the hand differently in the situation. After we discussed it for a little while teddy asked me what I woulda done if I was Jamie and I said call.
I learned a lot just from that hand and it only cost Jamie $95 :lol:
Sorry Jamie, you know I’m just joking.
POKER DRAMA
…is very boring.
Theres no Drama. What the fuck??
It was a bad beat. People usualy dont call off ties with eachother over a bad beat in poker.
It was an interesting hand thats all. I personally couldnt care less if you were entertained or not.
Yea, not really any drama. And I figured the hand would generate some kind of discussion, which hasnt’ been happening anywhere…shrug.
Yeah, I was joking. Unbunch your panties matt.
Your comments are always worthless. Maybe if you understood anything of what we’re talking about you wouldn’t post random stupidity trying to be like Colbert or something.
I understood everything. 
And i don’t watch Colbert…
The Call thing was on my mind the whole way home too, truthfully. The fact that the way the turn came(can’t remember what it was exactly but it was a brick), if I put all my money in then, Teddy might not have been as tempted to chase at that point. Problem was 4 6 off was definitely not a hand I put him on.
The big problem was I put Teddy on either nothing or a pair bigger than mine. I was sure he didn’t have A5 and was fairly positive he didn’t have 56. When I hit the read where my instincts were telling me Teddy was bluffing, that’s when I pushed. Unfortunately my read was slightly off and he’d hit a small piece and made the call for pot odds. I knew it was a gamble but considering the way I played a situation last week fairly passively(just calling), that sort of affected my decision.
When I went into the tank, I went through so many options on what to do, calling, pushing, folding, thinking about the possibility I was obviously giving away the strength of my hand, trying to think of what Teddy was up to, that it was completely sick. The only thing that was obvious was the other guy in the hand was done. I don’t think I’ve ever been in a hand where there was so much to think about before, which is definitely a testament to how good Teddy’s game is. I don’t think I’ve ever been in a situation this challenging before.
Basically I just went with my read that I had the better hand(and I was right, not that its any consolation unfortunately) and just shoved the money in. I got my money in with the best of it and my hand just couldn’t hold up when it needed to which seems to be a common theme lately. Its been rough lately, but what can you do? I either gotta give up or just work my way through it.
Another option I had in my head on the way home was a raise preflop but I wasn’t in the best position to do so with TT(5 people behind me if I remember correctly.) and I was also aware of the fact that Teddy’s 15 dollar raise could have meant anything so I was more interested in seeing a flop first.
I understand why Teddy made the call(the pot was about 160 bucks which was mighty tasty) and I’m definitely not mad. Wasn’t when it happened and I’m not now.
The point where I truly started to get steamed was the hand a while after when I hit top pair with a weak kicker when there was three diamonds over the board. When that guy bet, I knew he had K with a better kicker and later found out someone else had a K with an even better kicker. Seriously, who do I have to kill to get the better of a flop for a change? Oh yeah, not to mention the fact that the first hand the guy who takes my seat after me doubles up with AA has me wanting to bang my head off of a wall too.
There’s no drama here. Its hands like these I actually want to play…you can actually learn something from it. I’ll probably be thinking about this hand for a while.
I don’t want to punch you or anything Teddy. I still hate you though. :wonder: Thanks for the insight though, I think I’ve read over your post about five times already. I don’t think I have your latest msn right now…can you add me? obsidiansfire@hotmail.com
I finished up $430 on the night.
Just felt like rubbing that in.
As for the aforementioned hand, I don’t know if anyone was groaning over it but they shouldn’t be. See I don’t look at it as well as Teddy (that’s why he’s better than me) but from Jamie’s perspective I am looking at it as follows:
PRE FLOP
- First off, I’d have re-raised in Jamie’s position. This is me being guy who likes to read people though. I know Teddy’s coming off a hand he obviously hated losing prior (I tend to notice when Teddy just swallowed a big pill) and he’s coming right back in for another raise on the next hand. It wouldn’t surprise me if Teddy declared “tilt raise” as is his habit. Now if I look down at TT, I’m re-raising. It’s not even a question in my mind. If Teddy is messing around then he’s done. If Teddy has a decent hand, at least you know where you’re at. Personally I’d have shoved but I’m an idiot who loves TT so we’ll leave that facet out of it.
POST FLOP
- Teddy leads out for $30 so there’s a few things going on in my head. I don’t think he’s going to bet out a set of two’s, threes or fours. I know he’s not going to put me off hitting the wheel. I can put him on an ace based off his raise and continuation as he’s got his draw. It’s possible he has a monster pair, in which case I’m beat. I can also put him on a pair with an ace kicker, in which case I have him beat and will make the call (I like to see the turn, personal preference). It’s possible he’s got a mid pair, in which case I have him beat and I’m going to call as the board seems harmless enough and I like to see a turn (again personal preference here) before committing my chips unless I’m really up against the wall.
Too much beats my TT at that point for me to shove. If the turn is a monster card I hate (pair the board, and ace, a 5 or a 6) I at least have position and can decide if I have the best based on his check or bet (personally I’m shoving if he bets out at all on the turn as I don’t think he’d bet his straight, set or two pair at that point. A check is a horrible trap IMO if a danger card hits and I’m probably going to check it down).
The river sucked but it’s not like it wasn’t something you have to consider at that point. On that flop I’m looking for an Ace,5 or 6 to fuck me over and if I see it (even before Teddy showed his two pair) I’m going to hate it. It’s a tough beat but hardly something out of left field.
That’s just my take on it. I don’t have Teddy’s analytical skills. I just read the situation and that’s what would go through my head.
I’m 90% driving to Justins on superbowl day. Who needs a ride?
I do.
Reread my post there and just wanted to change the term ‘small piece’ to ‘hefty chunk’. Probably just trying to make the beat seam worse than it actually was…:rolleyes: What can I say, I’m looking for pity and I’m not likely to get it from you jerks…:arazz: :lol:
Ah well, poker is deep. Try better next time.
The only problem with the pre-flop re-raise is that there were 3 other people with stacks equal to or bigger than teddy’s as well as a few short stacks to Jaime’s left. Like Jaime said, the 15 dollar early position pre-flop bet could of meant anything and tens aren’t really a strong hand, to re-raise with. If he gets called by anybody he has to make a great call on the flop should someone lead out betting big, and also hope that none of the 4 possible over cards are on the flop. Just my view of the hand, I don’t give any pocket pair below jacks any preflop credibility anymore. Making a play when you potentially end up a coinflip at best just doesn’t seem like a good one for me to put more money into the pot that I don’t have to.
That’s exactly why I didn’t go for the preflop raise. Too many people behind me. Too much risk for pocket tens. If someone behind me went all in after I bump it up to say 45-50 dollars, not only have I committed myself, but I’d likely be up against KK or AA and be the dreaded 4-1 dog. If I was just playing Teddy, well, it might have been more of an obvious option.
Then again, at the same time, how am I supposed to know Teddy’s 15 buck raise is 64 off instead of JJ-AA? I’m not aware of the nature of his tilt raises. I wasn’t aware he had KK the hand before(I actually thought he just tried to buy the pot away from that woman but failed when she hit huge). To me, middle pairs are really iffy. I’d rather see if I can flop a set or outplay after the flop with them more often than not, especially in a cash game.
Happy Birthday Rey. You jerk.
Happy Birthday Rey.
Play Marvel, I’m tried of Justin beating the shit out of me at the game.
:party: Happy Birthday Rey :party:
Casual Marvel @ The Hammer House on THURSDAY night after 10:00pm. It’d be good to get everyone together for a little variety in the gaming. Post up here or find me on MSN if you can make it.
Can you burn me the Black Edition CD? And the other Blackheart stuff that I need?