April > May
(by the way, what’s up with Jellyfish Pirates and the Bison Dolls both being named after months?)
Hecatom
9222
As for Xrd yes, but before that she was like all the other girls, underage, just saiyan
Come on. Dizzy was designed to be an adult. She just so happens to be…three years in the making? “Age is nothing, but a number.” -R. Kelly
Its easy to say Millia doesnt have to work for a knockdown when you dont play Millia. Shes working overtime without pin. She has nothing to get in with otherwise she is making a hard read or taking a chance. And again, youtube is your friend when you want to fact check these kinds of statements. Using that logic, Zato is low tier if you kill Eddie. Thats the logic we are using here. Millia is amazing, but you have to get in, and to get in you need pin or a good guess. What does Ky need?
Ky being worse than Millia, its never happening. Not anywhere. Maybe on SRK but not anywhere else.
Naeras
9225
I have never, ever, seen a top player claim Ky is better than Millia. At best they’ve been on the same tier, and even that is rare. They might actually be equally good now after the Split Ciel buff (it’s easier to get SC dash 2D CSE now), gotta see how that turns out. I’d like to see even a single top player claim Ky has been better than Millia at any point during the life of Xrd.
Millia’s normals and movement options are good enough that you can probe your opponents’ habits in neutral and find a weakness you can exploit, and condition your opponents not to press buttons at crucial times. She does have to work for the knockdown, nobody’s disputing that, but that goes for everyone. The point is that she still has an easier time getting there than almost anyone else, while you’re formulating it like she needs to sorely outplay her opponents to get anything going.
As for “youtube is your friend”: I’m watching the EVO top 8 now, and Rion and Nakamura both support what everyone have been saying. If Nakamura got the knockdown on someone who had burned their defensive options, he won every single round, with Omito being the only player who even got to fight back in that situation (game 3, round 1). Furthermore there were enough situations where the risk-reward would be in his favor for just going in, since all he’d risk was minuscule damage from a poke (a situation that arose several times vs Ogawa). Rion was nowhere near that; he probably got more knockdowns from winning neutral exchanges than Nakamura did, but most of those knockdowns weren’t anywhere near as scary. You could just FD and reset to neutral (see the game vs Omito), where the only thing you risked here would be a throw or one of two reactable overheads. Obviously the knockdown and offense is still useful for Ky, but that’s not usually where he gets most of his damage.
tldr: getting a knockdown with Ky is a very good advantage. Getting a knockdown with Millia can be close to a game-winning advantage. The risk-reward here just can’t be compared.
As an aside, what matchups does Millia have that’s unfavorable now? I can’t imagine that she’s got more of those than Ky.
Naeras
9227
Yeah, but again, compare that to Ky. Your character has meterless no reversal, lost his/her burst and has less than 50 meter? Unless it’s an enhanced CSE, just FD while looking for overheads, and you’re out. You’re the one who’s been complaining about how Ky has “brainless oki” here even compared to Millia, when that’s not even where he actually gets his damage. That’s why people have been reacting to your posts.
If Johnny is the only truly bad matchup Millia has (I’ve heard people mention Sol as well), then she’s likely better off than Ky as a tournament character, at least on paper.
I actually went back and re-watched Evo 2016 before I completed my post and I’m stevie wonder to the claims. Heres why…
Youre counting the number of times Ky got a knockdown vs how many times Millia got a knockdown, which doesnt really say much other than who had more legit mixup on wakeup. That was never my point to begin with btw, but since we are counting things did you see how many times Nakamura went in with a pin, and how many times he sacrificed pressure for retreating to pick up pin? Pin is ESSENTIAL, and to deny that or say Millia is good without it is ludicrous.
Or lets count how many times Millia got 6P punished for trying to iad in because shes forced to take a chance with no projectile.
Millia is actively working to get in without a pin, and once she gets a knockdown you still have options. Thats the tradeoff. You arent jailed like Ky’s stun edge shenanigans. Which might I add give his a lot of something for a little of nothing. Ky can get the shit started midscreen with little to nothing, with good buttons and you have to eat it. Tandem top mixups dont do big damage and most of her tiger knee setups can be thrown/blitz/DA/Burst if you arent extra crispy with the inputs, hence the matches where Nakamura got wrecked when he had the knockdown.
You have take these things in account. Just saying Millia is better than Ky on paper isnt reflecting the match footage. Ky is and has always been a lot better than hes gotten credit for in Xrd, and after 1.3 patch I wouldnt be surprised if he ended up top 3.
Naeras
9229
I know I’m repeating myself now, but you’re badly underselling her other tools here.
Her pin is certainly her best neutral/approaching tool, there’s no denying that, but she has a lot of other useful tools for getting in.
This actually only happened against Omito. Machaboo had precisely one successful AA against her, and that was him hard-reading that Nakamura was trying to retreat, not approach. Ogawa got a total of 3 AAs against her, and only the CH Eddie S was worth mentioning (the non-CH ones did jack shit for discouraging Nakamura from going in, the damage was simply too low).
Against pre-nerf Johnny, getting AAed was really bad since he could completely fuck you up from that if he had lv2 MF, and he can cover pretty much all his angles. But against a lot of other characters you can handle taking a few AAs over the course of three games, when the reward for actually getting in is so high.
Would any other character with a comparable gameplan have done better at approaching in that scenario? I genuinely don’t think so.
1 - All of those defensive options work against Ky’s oki as well.
2 - Millia generally gets more damage from her oki than Ky does, outside of specific setups (or if the opponent actually gets hit by 6HS or CSE, which they really shouldn’t)
3 - Even if you actually had no option but to block the meaty CSE every time, who the fuck cares? Ky’s options afterwards are either not very damaging, reactable, unsafe, or all of these things. He’ll only get serious damage if you fail to react to his overheads (which happened like three times with Kazunoko against Rion) or if you get impatient and get counter-hit by something. So, again, just FD and look for his overheads. Who cares if you eat a throw or two in the process?
Their oki isn’t even in the same league. As said before, Ky is strong for entirely different reasons (namely his great neutral game). I genuinely don’t understand why you’re annoyed with it, unless the problem here is that a character with excellent neutral has any sort of reliable oki.
I agree with that last sentence. I shook my head when Hellpockets said “Ky is not that great” or something like that when Rion got to losers finals at EVO. He’s always been very good, and there’s a strong case for him being top 5 now. But everything I said now goes for Millia as well.
Agree or Disagree: Ramlethal is an incomplete character.
EVERYTHING she does is a risk. Even with equipped swords most of her normal attacks are bad in every category. Without swords? lol!! Her specials don’t facilitate her play-style neither do they force the opponent to make mistakes. They’re extremely off-the-shelf specials that could be given to any character. Her target combos make her very linear when it comes to block-strings. Regular chains would have given her more creative freedom. Having many of her normal attacks be rather slow (and can’t get a full combo after connecting) leads to the character with the worse neutral in the game.
Then we get to her corner pressure that you’ll be lucky to get someone in consistently, where the entire image of her swords are a giant hurt-box. You don’t even have to touch her swords. You can just breathe on Ram and the swords will fall…leading her to be her defenseless, sword-less, zero-neutral game self.
They seriously wrecked her with that first patch. The faster sword activation from this current patch is a start, but not enough for a solid game-plan.
What needs to be fixed are her specials and the hurt-box on the swords. The entire sword should not have a hurt-box and the specials need better functioning.
About Ram, I feel like her neutral is pretty hard and she has to really work to get someone into the corner, but once they are there she has some of the most oppressive corner control in the game, with good mix ups to boot: solid high/low mixups and left/right mixups that are a complete guess. They definitely nerfed her a bit too hard, but I still think she can be viable.
As for this Ky vs Millia discussion, I don’t really know what’s going on. Ky has consistent oki and likes his opponent in the corner, but his game is more about tick throws rather than crazy Millia mix ups. He gets big damage off his OH, but you can also IB it and punish him, whereas Millia’s you can’t even react to. From my perspective he’s a character built around fundamental play. Fyi, Millia also has setups that bait burst, blitz, reversals, and even some DAA…and that isn’t even counting Rose setups.
I wish her special were better. What do you do with them. Everyone uses their specials except her.
Can’t wait for YYB to go to a tournament and wow us with how broken and braindead Ky is
The only reason I ever play fighters on PC.
I don’t play her, so maybe ask The Arm on Twitter or even better, check out the Discord Ram room. However, I feel like they are kind of self-explanatory tbh: Dauro is your launcher (work on that perfect DP motion), command grab to stop people down-backing, and the projectile maybe for running away or YRC’d to get in. The only one I never really see used is the OH special
Quote the part where I said those exact things.
Actually don’t waste your time because I never implied that. Anyways…
Ram is incomplete. But I doubt arksys cares.
What are the chances of the next version including new specials and or ex moves? Ram could really benefit from something like ex sword swing or something.
Pretty much this.
What’s his weakness? Oki too strong no risk reward.
Weird that someone said the same thing as me a few pages back
