36

Ya, actually, that’s sort of legit.

Sort of.

I would like to say as a general rule even though it’s not what thizzle meant, that any time i try to c.lk, I also tap on c.lp as a just in case… why not, you know? It’s probably good practice.

But as for the OS itself, your looking at two paths, with the on block/hit path being:
c.lk > s.lk > s.lp > s.hp (on bigger characters you could probably go c.lk > s.lk > s.lp > c.mp xx boom)

…and the backdash or teleport path being:
c.lk > flashkick

I see alot of potential here. First off, I could see this as a solution to the infamous “what happens if fuerte backdashes on wakeup?” Secondly, this could solve some non-backdash stuff that still has invincibility, like… erm… EX seismo.

37

ya i just learned what an option select is a few days ago like i said. It seemed interesting to me… I am a tekken player and hadnt played much street fighter…
sf2 > sf2hd > 1month of vanilla > ssf4 started getting serious a little before evo. but ya it was just a thought, i know that the flashkick wont come out on block of a c.lk for sure. and ya i see why the grab input isnt needed, i was thinking about it in the wrong way. But i just planted the idea ;D its up to ur PROS to make it effective. That is, if it can be.

38

honestly the option select you made seems decent, have you tested it yet?

39

I really want to take this to the lab too actually. I mentioned Fuerte in my previous post, I think that if it works as advertized that it would be a great way to plant some offense on his wakeup… tagging backdash and probably spaghetti legs… as well as being safe from EX run back > hp flip. Of course, that’s if it works as advertised. :lol:

40

Ok, just tested this on El Fuerte, and looks like the c.lk > s.lk ~ flashkick OS will tag even his super speedy backdash on wakeup. It’ll tag a backdash, auto-correct an EX spaghetti legs, and leave you safely chaining with normals against a block, hit, or EX run back! I’m pretty sure this is a 100% universal backdash OS on all the cast… except for maybe an oiled hakan. Obviously, the flashkick does not hit meaty, so your only grabbing the 100 damage instead of the 120 damage backfist, but your still grabbing a knockdown on top of it to set up some more tricks and oki stuff. I will note that you have to be pretty much point blank for this to work on fuerte though… like after a close sweep or close hk flashkick combo.

I also realized that I’m terrible at doing this stuff, haha. I seriously NEVER chain my normals as tight as I could because I’ve spent all this time teaching my hands to do the c.lk > c.lp > c.mp link rythm. For awhile I couldn’t get this to work at all before I noticed that Guile would just kind of sit there after he whiffed c.lk… just kinda lazin’ about before he would flashkick for a few frames. I sped up my inputs and it worked a charm. When I get a nice solid 3 hours or so, I’ll try to test this out some more and update the main list.

Oh snap, just thought about this one… let’s say you knock fuerte down but your out of range for the flashkick OS. Walk up and do c.lk > f.lk + f.mp! His backdash is fast but doesn’t travel too far, and most people’s instinct after a backdash is to block low, so I bet this would tag him nicely. Not very useful, but you never know what could win you a round nowadays. Will test this one out too.

41

I realise that this is quite a bit of work, but honestly, I don’t recall backdashing being a major problem in any of my games. Except for maybe backdash happy Roses and Chuns, is anyone really going to backdash away from Guile? It seems counterproductive from thier standpoint most of the time.

42

You’re definately right. This has become more of a personal project for me than anything else really. The only characters that need backdashes are ones that don’t have reliable reversals to use on wakeup. I would say Dhalsim and Claw being the most important of the old cast, and of the new cast, I hear Makoto is pretty easy to abuse on wakeup along with Juri, Dee Jay, and Hakan. Overall, I don’t have much experience with the new characters… but much of the cast can use backdash to escape pressure when they don’t have EX.

Guile isn’t an in your face character. If Ryu lands a jab from almost any range, he can land a knockdown into pressure. If Zangief knocks you down, he needs to use OS’s like crazy to keep his OP locked up. Rufus’ constant divekick pressure is always making me mash on back. Guile doesn’t have the tools to make people want to backdash, and in the end, you would gain very little as a player by over-analyzing all this stuff. I’m just doing it because I think it’s interesting from a game design standpoint, I like to half-ass rush down often, and I think it would actually be super useful vs. Dhalsim, haha. I REALLY want to land that target combo ~ U2 OS in an actual match. :lol:

43

Here’s an offensive OS i didn’t see posted, so here goes:

c.lp x3, followed by UP+KKK. Of course c.lk, c.lp x2, UP+KKK works just fine as well.
At best, you’ll get a 5-hit EX-FK combo which is a 1-f link.
Without meter, you get a 4-hit combo with HK FK for good damage.
In the very least, you’ll get a 4-hit combo that ends with far s.lk.

This is a low risk, high reward OS where as long as the c.lp lands, you shouldn’t ever get a blocked FK, just a s.lk at worst.
Obviously, don’t use this as a block string, otherwise the FK can be blocked and punished if it comes out.
And you can substitute UP+LK for UP+KKK if you prefer, which limits the damage upside but saves the meter.

44

Wish someone would have told me about this thread sooner. Funny how Warahk has a Phd in Guile and he’s given up. Disheartening.

45

This wouldnt work against 3 frame jab characters like Rog or Fei long right?

46

It really depends. If you did it perfectly and waited 4-5 frames before pressing those three buttons, then yes, you would most certainly block the 3 frame jabs just as you would block a 3 frame DP. The real trick though is knowing how to delay your attacks in this manner… to throw this out late enough to be able to block a quick attack, yet early enough to still be in the crouch tech throw window. Just takes practice.

47

Am i missing something here? someone mashing out 3 frame throw vs waiting 4-5 frames… and i still would be able to tech? Im not doubting you, i just want to understand cause the math doesnt add up. Do i have to account for that 1 standing frame on wakeup? plus the 3f for throw?

48

I’m not 100% on how big the actual crouch tech window is, but I WANT to say that you have something like a 3-5 frame window to actually tech a throw. So even though a throw has a 3f startup, by pressing throw anywhere in that window will still tech the throw. So, let’s say you set this situation up and you are a robot who can press :db:+:lk::lp::mp: EXACTLY 5 frames after, let’s say, Ryu, gets up off the ground after a knockdown.

Option 1: He shoryus. Since shoryu comes out in 3 frames and you are blocking and not pressing any buttons until the 5th frame, you block.

Option 2: He throws. A throw comes out after 3 frames too. However, since you have a window of 3-5 frames to tech a throw, that means that as long as you press lp+lk anywhere from 3 to 8 frames after ryu stands up, you will tech the throw.

Option 3: He blocks. You do c.mp xx boom or some crap.

Option 4: He wakes up with a quick normal like c.lp or c.lk. Since these come out in 4 frames, you should still be safe. Obviously, dependant on how well your opponent can do normals with reversal timing, but, you know, these are hypothetical robots we’re talking about anyways.

Option 5: He wakes up with a slightly slower normal, let’s say c.hk (6f startup?). You will get hit by this since you already pressed c.mp, but it’s not out yet.

Again, this is a situation that exists in a vacuum performed by robots. No one can do reversal c.lp on wakeup with 100% consistency, no can press an option select EXACTLY 5 frames after someone elses wakeup EVERY time. Still the idea of a slightly delayed option select like this is pretty high level stuff. Also, I’m a bit fuzzy on what the exact window is of a crouch tech, but I’m pretty sure it’s 3-5 frames.

Does this make sense?

49

I think it’s something like 3 frames available to crouchtech and 5 frames for standing tech.

50

this is hands down one of the best tutorials ive seen. He covers OS describing exactly what i meant when i started my other thread. Not to mention the other goodies like kara SB / FK. This is new to me. Enjoy guys

[media=youtube]ku_8jDmjMPQ[/media]

51

3-5 frames to tech throw, if this is true then it makes perfect sense… but at least you understood where i was coming from. thanks for this man, much appreciated.

You lost me however at option 5 (forgive my ignorance). wouldnt it be the other way around? a faster normal interrupting a slower one? in order to get a counterhit… when does one attack have to hit the other? during startup or recovery? or is it both.

52

Pretty good video except for the kara SB explanation. To kara, you interrupt the first frame of a normal with the special move. Using negative edge to throw out a jab(or any normal) doesn’t work. Looking at the video, he’s not kara’ing his SB, he just pressing forward on the stick for a few frames, then pressing the button for the SB. You have a 10f window to press the button after you’ve input the command for a SB. To kara a SB, you’re supposed to use c.HK. There’s pretty much no way to kara a SB with another punch button. You’ll get an EX SB everytime(you can kara EX SB with a punch button though). You can also use c.HK to kara EX FK.

According to the japanese mook, you have 7f to tech throws. You can tech on frames 4-10(including 10).

53

Interesting. I didn’t know it was possible to use c.HK to kara SB. I only knew about the far st.rh.

54

so in theory, you dont have to plink at all? similar to the technique daigo spoke about for increasing range on U2 at EVO by lamerboi?

BTW gilley could you quickly clarify what defines a counter hit as in the discussion above? (slower move vs faster move, what part of the animation is it supposed to hit e.g. startup, active, recovery) I would imagine its only startup? otherwise it would trade during active frames. Would be foolish to start a thread just for this. Thanks!

55

Gilley’s absolutely right… just hold forward for a second then SB. “kara” SB… should you want to move in on your opponent