Guile Moveset and Attributes

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
41

OK, I think I’ll post in this thread cause it deals with a strange attribute of Guile’s FK supers. I don’t know how I found this, it was just randomly I guess. I was trying to figure what specials Guile could punish and accidentally discovered he could punish C.Viper’s qcb+lp with his lk FK super. When I looked at the frame data for Viper’s qcb+lp, I noticed it said -2 on block. I knew that Guile’s lk FK super has 3 frames of startup. This got me confused because Guile shouldn’t be able to punish this move. I decided to check if other characters with 3 frame supers can punish her qcb+lp. Both Ken/Ryu have 3 frame supers, but they can’t punish Viper’s qcb+lp. This is consistent with the frame data. So why can Guile punish this with lk FK super when it has 3 frames of startup…I have no clue.

I was discussing this with Edma and he thought that maybe the frame data for Guile’s FK supers wasn’t correct and they really have 2/3/5 frames of startup. This seemed like a correct assumption until I started testing this out. I went through every character in the game and tested all moves that were -2/-3/-5 on block with Guile’s lk/mk/hk FK supers. Guile’s lk FK super will punish some normals/specials with -2 on block, but not all. I have no real explanation for this. His mk FK super can punish some -3 on block moves, and his hk FK super can punish some -5 on block moves. The frame data is indeed correct, there’s just something strange going on with Guile’s supers.

This isn’t anything super gamebreaking or gamechanging, but I’ve found it could possibly help Guile out in some situations. I guess this could potentially be gamechanging if this works for other characters too. I haven’t been able to test this out with other characters yet, but I think this might be specific to Guile. If you guys want to try this with other characters, please let me know your results. So here’s the list of moves I found Guile can punish with his supers when he shouldn’t be able to…

ABEL
close s.mp (lk super)

BALROG
lp dash straight (mk super) <–woohoo! ultra after the super
lp dash swing (hk super) (EX swing blow doesn’t work for some reason even though they’re both -5)

C.VIPER
c.hp (lk super)
lp sand knuckle (lk super)
c.lk (mk super)

CHUNLI
close s.hk (mk super)
mp kikkoken (mk super)
c.hk (hk super)
df+lk (hk super)
hp kikkoken (hk super)

DHALSIM
s.lp (lk super)

EHONDA
c.hp (lk super)

GUILE
close s.mp (mk super)

KEN
f+mk (lk super) <–woohoo!

RUFUS
f+hp (hk super)

RYU
far s.mk (lk super)

ZANGIEF
c.mp (mk super)
c.hk (hk super)

DAN
far s.hp (lk super)
mk dan kick (lk super)
hk dan kick (lk super)

GEN
crane s.lk (lk super)
mantis s.lk (mk super)
crane c.mk (mk super)
jasen all (mk super)
crane s.mk (hk super)

GOUKEN
s.hk (hk super)

ROSE
close s.hp (mk super)

SAKURA
hurricane hk (lk super)

PS: I tested this with Guile’s ultra(7 frames startup) on all -6 on block moves. Unfortunately it doesn’t work.

42

Excellent work, Gilley. Those two are awesome openings.

43

I second this sentiment. That’s pretty incredible.

44

Love the stuff Gilley posted. I’m not sure if this has been answered yet but in relation to Anti air attacks, what other characters can the S MK be effective on? I seem to have greater success in using the S MK against the shotos, rose and sagat.

as for the DF + HK, I am usually more confident in using this against zangief. I am not confident of using it against other characters as I haven’t quite got the timing right given that I either wiff and get hit or end up trading. Thoughts and advice welcome

45

what is the timing for you guys when you do d+hp?

46

I’m assuming these supers need to be reversals right?

47

I mostly use C.hp for my AA but I also use the following s.hp (far) (best for zangief), fk, sb, and air throw.

If I’m not mistaken I think I saw a video before of dagger_g using s.mk as AA if the opponent is jumping from afar. But I’ll check on that again. I’ll also start to use that.

48

Sorry for the noob question but I searched eventhub and shoryuken wiki and I am still a little confused about the term reversal. I am assuming it’s when you input a move right after blocking (first frame after leaving block stun)?

Also for the super how is its priority? e.g punish a Honda EX flying Headbutt with a super (when he is flying towards me).

49

Here is something i have been trying to execute but not 100% certain whether it can be pulled off with Guile . This involves Focus absorbing say a fireball and going straight into an Ultra and catching the opponent during their fireball stun.

Here is an example of Boxer doing this but from a distance.

Obviously, doing this within sweep distance would be the best scenario as you are most likely to hit the opponent before they recover from their fireball .

The main problem is that Guile would need a Downback charge whilst boxer only needs a back charge. hopefully somebody here can provide an insight

Cheers

50

only works with moves that have super armor

51

That involves using a special with armor properties and cancelling out of those initial frames with ultra. An example of this is with Gouken rolling a counter to an ultra with a motion of 12361236. I don’t think Guile can do that with a focus attack.

52

That’s not focus absorbing. That’s EX cancel to ultra… Balrog’s EX dash punch > ultra is b,f,b+ppp (on hit), f+ppp. I don’t think it’s possible with guile as the characters shown in some videos (boxer, zangief, abel) has EX that absorbs a hit on their body. Guile’s EX is a projectile and a flash kick that goes through a fireball.

53

[media=youtube]POBvQuNWvEs&feature=channel_page[/media]

Whiffed cr.Hp to Ultra: brilliant or lucky as hell?

An early cr. Hp while they’re waking up will probably bait them to poke you so you can hit them with Ultra, but at the same time, that’s a huge ass gamble. Maybe cr. Hp to flash kick then? Actually, now that I think about it, the pay off for that is worse for the same amount of risk. Either way, if they guess right you’re super open. At least into Ultra you get more chip damage. Hell, it’s not like you were planning on landing that Ultra any other way, right :smiley: ?

54

Now that Gilley has ousted b.hk~mk as a kara link, I’d like to find out if there are any other kara links for Guile. Open call, I guess.

55

Not really sure what you’re asking. The b.hk~mk after lvl2 FA is a p-link, here’s a big thread on it called kara-linking in the discussion threads. When you slide it the game registers it as b.hk, then b.hk+mk, ideally on consecutive frames, giving you two chances to hit the correct frame (since hk has priority over mk). So this method works for linking double fierce: HP -> HP~MP, and for his bnb link: c.lk, c.lp, c.mp~c.lp. This method works for all links except jab links.

56

Interesting - somehow I missed that discussion. Best I get to some reading.

EDIT: Got it - it’s pretty simple and great for players without consistent 1 frame timing (most people, I imagine). Thanks for the pointer.

57

That was beautiful. Risky as all hell, but beautiful.

Ever since seeing the ending of [media=youtube]BPLl-75D-0c&feature=related"[/media] I’ve been trying to see if Guile could pull off the whiffed throw into ultra (using the same method as dash ultra) with absolutely no luck at all. I guess the extra 5 frames on the the throw make it impossible to pull off? For some reason though I’ve managed to pull off throw whiff into super a hand full of times but can never get the ultra to come out.

Has anyone managed to make this work? And does anyone know if you can cancel throw recovery with supers/specials or do you have to ride out the full 20 frames?

58

yes u can

59

Damn, skimmed right over that without noticing, thanks. So a throw takes 25 frames to complete, putting it just above your theorized input limit. I’d test this out some more myself to confirm but my console shit itself earlier in the week and I’m waiting on Sony to send it back.

Also, Is there any reason why the total column of this frame data doesn’t quite match up to the numbers you get when you add startup + active + recovery frames of a move? Everything is listed as one frame shorter than you would think; for example far HP is listed as 5+3+14 (22, obviously) but the total column reads 21. Is this just a typo or am I not reading something right?

60

yes u can whiff a throw into Super/Ultra without losing a charge (throw 5 frames total)
i dont understand what you mean by throw then super/ultra.
a throw causes knockdown & your opponent will have to get up from which gives you plenty of time to charge for a super/ultra.

unless u mean tech throw, then i don’t know since there’s no tech throw frame recovery data.
(knockdown, charge, wake-up throw> tech, Super/Ultra)

there’s a lot of small errors on SRK’s frame data list.
a lot of people edit the web page.
For example:
c. viper’s jump HK used to say 900 damage.

so take the data with a grain of salt & test what you can.