Basically the situation with EX-Green Hand-through-Sonic-Boom has not changed at all from Super to AE due to the counter-hit EXGH knockdown so we still have to deal with the KD mixup. It only got worse for Guile because it now does CH damage/stun and if that Guile has U2 then punishing a baited/blocked EX-GH won’t be as painful for Gief.
No knockdown ex hand is clearly a nerf. In footsie lp/lk buffer ex hand range, if you connect, not only do you not get knockdown into mixups but you’re also left too far to hit them with any light or medium attack or to grab them with any command grab. And at the range where you can react well to projectiles and laggy normals ex hand now leaves you in the same crappy positioning. So, that’s way way worse obviously. Thankfully a few characters, like Guile, will get counter hit and so still get knocked down.
Combos into ex hand now need to be shorter too, since doing like cr lp, cr lp, cr lp, st lp, st lk before xx ex hand will put you at that same dumb range as in buffered footsies where you can’t do anything. So combos are now less damaging and afford less time for hit confirming.
The situation after combos, with both characters just standing there, is so much worse than getting a knockdown that I gotta figure people who think it’s a buff just haven’t really thought about it. On a knockdown, even a techable one, Gief could get crossups/fake crossups, safe jumps, safe meaties, option selects, ex hand or sweep to catch backdashes, and also the basic cr short combo or grab or u2 mixup. Without a knockdown, he only gets the basic mixup, the chase to catch backdashes, and some limited option selects. In other words, without a knockdown he just gets fewer options and none of his options are better.
And while you might get caught by its speed the first time, by the fourth time you won’t. After all, this is only an issue in combos, and you can use the time the combo takes to think about what to do.
Btw, it’s no less punishable on block, even after fadc back.
And as for the extra range on jab spd, it’s not that noticeable. Point blank cr jab x3 into lp spd worked in Super already, and cr jab x4 into lp spd still whiffs.
Anyway, from Guile’s perspective, ex hand is only as good as it used to be if you throw a reactable boom or get tagged by a guessed ex hand, and other than that it’s definitely worse. I don’t think having to hit Gief with 1-2 more attacks before killing him or needing an additional frame to throw his slow jump will be a huge deal. I figure Guile will probably beat Gief worse than in Super.
Man this is going to suck…
Man… what are they doing to Guile? What are they doing to this game? It almost feels like they are just taking a big, greasy shit all over the Super IV changes they made not even a year ago.
Guile got a new combo his standing hard kick links into fierce punch now. SSF4AE 18/12/2010@??X-Land : ??(RY) vs ???(GU)
on COUNTER HIT.
that’s been around since SF4
Counter hit…
Some people need to stfu when they don’t know how major some of this stuff is on Guile. They’re secretly happy about all the nerfs and they’re here to just rub salt in our wounds with false sentiments.
The Guile vs Gief match up will still be a little in Guile’s favor if nothing more than the fact that the rounds start with Guile at the zoning advantage but once Gief gets in, just screw it. It becomes Zangief’s game and the role is reversed.
I’m tired of complaining about these nerfs too. They all add up to a whole load of crap that will make Guile near unusable in AE and going through this thread just solidifies it. Don’t worry Ultradavid! There will be far less Guile’s for you to have a hard time with. What was it that Diago kept saying? Something about comparing every match up he brought up with Zangief…? hum… It can’t be because he got worse after all, right?
Look out Makoto honey, I’m looking at you like a steak dinner.
man its about time we cleanse the guile forums of riff- raff cause the past few pages disgust me
Agreed.
Ya, that EX hand business is in no way shape or form a buff to gief. UD pretty much stated it perfectly. After you get hit by it once or twice, the novelty is gone. Same goes for akuma. Before, gief could OS a greenhand after a crossup and catch a teleport. Now I’m pretty sure Akuma’s PPP teleport back will put him safely out of range of anything.
In particular to the Guile match, it’s still a meaningful gief nerf despite this CH business. (Has this been confirmed? Haven’t been hit with EX GH yet in AE) Now, it’s a lot “safer” to mash on backdash or jump back after blocking a gief crossup, because if he hits you with a combo, it won’t lead to another crossup. This is a big deal.
Ya… but someone should probably just delete this thread. It’s just a cry fest over here.
i agree with guile beating gief harder in AE because of what slinkun and david have said.
i also agree with t hawk being super free, but i’ve never played a super good t hawk
after seeing deejay in action, i honestly hate to say this…but if you’re a competitive/tournament player and can do deejay’s ex mgu into walk up ultra 2, i see no reason in sticking with guile other than for the love of the character. what the fuck were capcom thinking? do they just want everyone to switch to deejay? where’s the incentive to stick with guile over deejay? even something small in the grand scheme of things like udk being unthrowable would’ve made guile’s nerfs bearable. then we would’ve had a mixup game similar to rose.
guile’s ultra nerf makes deejay’s ultra choices better. his meter gains twice as fast. his cross up and mixup potential is way better than guile’s. his flash kick works all the time and you can even combo into another one straight after for more damage. i don’t know about his normals…i assume guile’s are still better (but i think his sweep is now safe on block). i am certain guile has the better normal anti airs though…but who the fuck is ever gonna jump at deejay when he’s got those jackknife kicks?
i honestly don’t get why they nerfed guile’s ultra 2 when deejay’s ultra 2 works in the majority of the same ways (except for the fact it’s not anti fireball) and does ridiculous damage. makes zero sense to me.
Well, I’m not a tournament player at this game, but I do have pretty good execution and can do dash U2 consistently in Super (though oddly my Guile FADC U2 only hits 10% of the time, I just can’t time it). The nerfs to Guile do suck, as it wasn’t like he was dominating tournaments left and right, but personally I think love of a character is the only reason to play anyone.
I second this; Guile’s U2 was fine… I have no idea why the fuck Capcom felt the need to make it all but useless.
Carrying on from Wikum’s post, Deejay is already pretty well balanced in Super (tier list show him go even for most of his match ups; a few favourable 6-4s and the odd 4-6s [against some of the top tiers]…and all of his specials/ultras work.
What does Deej have that Guile doesn’t. I mean, he has a zoning tool (not as good as SB but it works), he has a better flash kick [auto correct], he has a invul travelling move, both his ultras work (his U2 works better than Guiles U1)…so how is he better balanced overall than Guile?
Maybe it’s lack of airthrow, that could explain the frame nerf on that for Guile in helping balance the match ups. Maybe it’s the st. fp poke (iirc deej doesn’t have anything like that). But, if Deej is perfectly playable with a working flash kick, why does Guile’s remain busted?
And why is Deejay getting buffed hardcore? Like seriously, he’s a better Guile in every shape or form from the AE changes, almost like an easy mode Guile.
You know how I said before capcom is aiming for balance. I retract that statement.
DeeJay Upkick is only antiair, and can be safe jumped. You’re naked when they mix you on the ground. At least, Guile Flashkick is a good reversal FADC on the ground, even if Guile is naked when crossed up.
Air Slasher is decent zoning at most, nothing even comparable to sonic boom.
Ultra 2 is only for close punishment and in combo. Guile’s Ultra II can be used at some distance. I don’t understand why it was nerfed though, it didn’t do so great damage before.
The invul travelling move is not that good. Very short window of invul only on projectiles, and can be pretty much unsafe on block.
Deejay pokes are not that good. Guile, on the contrary… Not to mention the air grab.
I don’t think you’ll see lots of Guile players switching to Deejay, they are completely different characters. I mained Guile in Vanilla and switched to Deejay in Super because I had finally a character that fitted my style, and I can say that you must re-learn ALL the matchups…
I honestly think Guile will still be higher in the Tier list.
Only my opinion though.
I’d been using DeeJay as a 3rd “main” since SSF4 came out… roster change! lol I’ll be down with Guile forever, but Capcom keeps f*cking with him too much to have fun with the character. Seriously, DeeJay’s traveling sobat attack (name?) and the traits on jackknife should’ve been how Guile’s moves evolved. The game feels completely different with a cross-up escape/projectile punisher all-in-one move. Safe on block slide means good times in AE; the timing on his anti-air fierce is a little wonky (in a GHK sort of way), but it is functional.
Oh well… at the very least, I’ll miss the shades.
I don’t know, deej got a buff on every single special move he has. And they WORKED in Super. He wasn’t that far from being top tier either. I cross referenced his bad match-ups with Guile’s; he actually does slightly better against sim (4-6) and viper (5-5), both notoriously difficult matches for Guile.
Generally speaking, Guile does worse against the bottom-top tiers and a few top-bottom [4 from each actually]; Deej goes even if not favourable with most of the cast, bar 5 (all top tiers…but none of them are 3-7s)
I’m gonna use Deejay for the remainder of this week. See if the practical side of things makes more sense. Theory is confusing the shit out of me right now. There’s gotta be a reason why he’s getting buffed so immensley despite having less unfavourable matches than Guile.
guile’s normals and normal anti airs piss all over deejay’s in super. i don’t know how much this has changed in a.e…but i assume it has. safe slides = nice frame trap opportunities.
don’t get me wrong, i think he’ll still be b tier. just with all the nerfs, they should’ve given him something like the unthrowable udk that i mentioned. at least that way you have some attacking options. i just feel they’ve made guile into a boring, meter management character who gets owned by cross ups because he has way less chances to fadc flash kicks now…and we’ve been made to play ssf4 guile in handicap mode. at least sagat got a really useful ultra 2 and angry scar.
I dont think it will be as bad as it seems. Vanilla Guile was still very solid and by all accounts from Dieminion and such, this Guile is better than Vanilla Guile.
Honestly, I’m kinda worried about Yun and Yang as they seem just stupid in some aspects, but obviously we’ll need to wait a few months to see how things sort out.
Can anyone check if you can now super-cancel Guile’s shades? That would be amazing.