i have a lot of faith in capcom. people talk shit but ssf4 was a major improvement over vanilla. i dont think it’ll get worse
Straight nerfs aside from UDK? Guess he did too much damage, what with almost all of his bad matchups being characters that would love a health buff…
No way they left the frame data alone? Was Guile seriously that bad in SSF4? Can’t be serious…wtf. Usually characters who had some tools taken away were given more combo friendly options…a couple for guile would be nice since he’s doing less damage overall.
Wow.
With all the buff DJ seems to be a better choice considering his EX Upkick is much more effective than any of Guile’s AA.
I’m okay with the nerfing, as LONG as it doesn’t make his hardest match-ups harder. Thats all.
i cant stand deejay, his shit eating grin makes me want to punch him in the mouth.
my characters: guile, blanka, sagat, sim
Presumably SH damage will be similar to that of Metsu / Tiger Cannon / other projectile ultras (Guile’s did the most damage). Backfist will probably do 100 damage. UDK will probably do 100 damage (better hit box will be nice but it still has a big start up.
The nerf to booms will net him more losses in the projectile war department. Even if they evened it out to give 10 on launch 30 on hit so that it stayed the same, Ryu/Akuma/Sagat/Etc can fire more of them. They’ll get more meter every time, even with perfect charge buffering FP fireball spam will force you to jump or block at some point and in that jump or block they pull ahead that much more.
Flash Kick damage nerfs seem odd, given that they aren’t particularly that great at anti-air’ing to begin with and they’re average combo enders (many characters have similar damaging specials to end combos with). Albeit the deliberate deep rh.fk trade into sonic hurricane was pretty legit damage.
It’s already a pretty long arduous fight for Guile in many cases, with the level of precision required to play him. Making him have to drag the battles out even longer seems kinda brutal.
the nerfs dont bother me, and to be totally honest, that was about the minimum i was expecting to see. all in all, i think it could have been a lot worse.
if you’re outplaying or laming your opponent to death like the daigo/mago games from canada cup, i think you’re still going to win with the same dominance. i just hope they really mean it when they say they’ve barely touched his frame data.
less meter = having to be more thoughtful with your flash kicks. if i’m honest, that will probably force me to improve my play.
i believe the nerfs to ultra 2 are to make it near pointless to do flash kick, fadc, ultra outside of finishing your opponent off. kinda like how they nerfed vega’s ultra, they only want you to use it for fireballs. i get the feeling trade ultra’s will probably do 50-100 less damage now too.
very interested by udk tweaks. still unsure as to how much of a difference they will make. would be nice if it turns out to be un-throwable.
just remember, guile still has ridiculous boom speed and recovery, great normals, anti airs, an air throw, and on top of all those, sonic hurricane.
as retarded as this might sound now, he may well be at the same level in the tiers despite the nerfs. even if he took a drop, he’s not going to be vanilla bad.
if you were like me (a vanilla guile main), i doubt the changes are going to phase us too much, although i must admit they didn’t change sagat much bar a damage nerf and look what happened there.
Damage nerfs I can live with (even if they are pointless like say FK damage…lol smh). It’s also funny to see some people ecstatic that Guile got damage nerfed considering the match ups aren’t really going to change in light of them. He’ll still be able to keep people out like he can in Super…
That’s what everyone said about Sagat, too.
The point is, your opponent can make more mistakes before losing. That means they have more opportunities to get in. What does that mean? It means your zone game was nerfed.
I am suprised they didnt nerf Guile High Kick, which along with Flash kick trade ultra, contributed in giving Guile high damaging combos, however it is sad they nerfed the back fist damage, hope it is not severe.
However, I think nerfing the air throw was too much, since they are many counters to it, and the move itself requires mad reactions or anticipation (unless they are bison or chun li), but I hope 1 frame does not ruin it completely, and the range with the damage is hopefully the same.
So in the end, I guess the real nerf is that matches are getting longer due to a weaker damage output, and perhaps, as mowr said, the opponent has more chances of getting in.
Well Guile High Kick when from being utterly and totally useless in Vanilla to a valid move in Super… but it still has a long start up, only hits high, and is extremely difficult to anti-air with so it’s not like it’s really that abused. It just finally allows Guile to do an easy meter-less 200ish damage punish with no charge just like how Ryu can just walk up to somebody and do solar plexus strike -> shoryuken for easy damage. It’s one of the few things that brought him out of the slums of damage output and keeps his offense a bit more scary so I don’t really see any reason for them to nerf it.
I think if you took all the damage that you would have done had they not nerfed it in a single match and added it up, it probably ends up being something like the total damage of a standing fierce or two. Think you can land just 1 more fierce in a fight than before the nerfs? It’s probably not that impossible lol
Guile’s favourable match ups aren’t because of his insane damage imo. In fact, he has no easy wins in super at all. Favourable matches yes but as soon as your gaurd breaks and opponent gets in, good luck trying to come back. Especially considering his already low damage output to begin with.
With Vanilla Gat, it didn’t matter whether he had more or less hp than his opponent (and in some cases how far he was from his opponent!); one lolcombo and he pretty much won the match. The closest thing Guile has to a lolcombo is GHK set ups, but the hit box isn’t perfect like fagats and you have to burn a lot of meter to get anything remotely close to what Vanilla Sagat could do (that is if you can pull it off in the first place).
I don’t know, part of me still thinks the nerf is arbitrary and pointless. The other part thinks eff capcom 
I didn’t think about it that way. Guess we will just have to wait and see.
It definitely could have been worse…at least he will not be Vanilla Guile. His hard match ups remain unchanged, Akuma, El Fuerte and C.Viper are going to be major pains still. His easy match ups will not likely change much ( except maybe Hakan). I think where he might have been hit is his close match ups, especially other projectile characters that he has an edge on (Ryu, Sagat, Ken, DJ, Goken) I think those 6-4 and 5.5-4.5 match ups will be 5-5 now or slight edge to the bad guys (ie:not Guile).
meh udk still does not hit crouchers sometimes…meh
We played with vanilla guile before, I think we can deal with some damage nerfs. At least they didn’t mess with his frames etc. Maybe I just lament that the game’s getting so tame, but I guess that’s just me. I prefer SF2 damage and stuff.
Side note, buffs for deejay are cool and all, but if you thought that deejay’s fireball was the new sonic boom, getting counter hit during air slash = risky as hell fireball game.
yo guys I’m from the Seth forum and I just want to say my condolences to the Guile nerfs…my opinion he didn’t really need a damage nerf since his damage doesn’t come from heavy combos just a little tweaking here and there…
ohh well ssf4 arcade nerf edition
Yea, i was going to say that’s a small bright side.
Guile could change in tier list because the other characters got something improved that was proportionate to what got taken away, that’s what annoys me. Damage nerf doesn’t change playstyle, it’ll just mean you have to play even more flawlessly to win, and you get less reward for doing things right.
It’s not that it’s a bad thing to have to make next to no mistakes to win each round, it’s that Guile really wasn’t that bad in super that it warranted almost entirely negative changes while so far they seem to have skipped improving frames of normales like they did with other characters. Then there’s the flashkick reduction nerf…because that move was being abused so badly?
I hope it’s been compensated fairly is all. Just a combo more combo friendly normals and it’s fine, and more importantly it makes sense. It makes sense that if flashkick is going to be easier to link into, or recover faster that it should do less damage, ditto for sonic hurricane. It makes sense that if Guile was causing too many problems with his booms, that you should increase combo-ability while decreasing damage if they want him to be more focused on causing stun.
Y’know, as long as his damage doesn’t get nerfed to the point that people aren’t even afraid to jump and eat a flash kick, I’m fine. I also thought they would have nerfed his GHK damage, since it leads to redonkulous damage. Now that I’m thinking about it, trading flash kick vs jumping hk, and losing damage-wise was something that bothered me a lot in SF4.
Props to this thread not going totally off the cuff in the face of quite a few nerfs. Big props to gilley for this.
Well I’m still pissed off at all the nerfs with barely a buff. I suppose his UDK is going to be actually useful like how Super’s GHK became useful but the situation in which you can use them need to be re-learned. I don’t really see Guile as that hard of a match up personally and all this means that we’ve got to work even harder for our win. sigh I should feel used to an uphill battle at this point but common. Throw the man with only two specials some sort of bone here.