Great points. The thing is, when looking at which ultra to pick, it’s less about damage potential and more about utility. While super > U1 does stupid damage, the overarching question becomes: “How often will I be in a situation to land c.lk > c.lp > c.mp, have super stocked, and have U1 stocked?” The fact is, at high levels of play, you start seeing this less and less. You are using some meter here for EX booms, some meter there for EX flashkicks, and FADCing flashkicks and booms to get some breathing room.
Then comes another big problem with the U1 philosophy, and this is going to be getting a bit abstract, but it alters your playing mentality in bad ways. When you have a full U1 stocked, you want to land it. It forces you to direct attention away from zoning or being safe with FADC’s and causes you to play stagnant. That’s where U2 comes in as it flows better with your general gameplan, allowing for AA’ing while walking back, punishing focus while staying mobile, and offering an option for extra damage off of an FADC’d flashkick you were going to FADC anyways. U2 just “flows” into Guile’s gameplan really well, whereas U1 forces the player to try to incorporate an impractical ultra into their game.
U1 is still has its uses, but I feel as though these uses get rarer and rarer as you get better and better. The only matchup where I use U1 anymore is bison due to it punishes EX scissors raw. The more I play though, U2 just has tons of application. Look at C.Viper. I used to go to U1 in case she tried to cross me up in the sorner for the two-hit super > U1 combo. However, having U2 stocked allows the same thing (for less damage) but ALSO allows you to punish lk burn kick feints at a distance after she forces you to block a seismo. Just an example.
I’ve been playing around much more and I do agree. U2 has better options and just works better. The landing of the super and then getting the U1 is just way too inconsistent. U2 just has better and easier applications. It sucks that you can’t do a raw fk fadc u2 on some characters without great difficulty, like Cammy, but the pros definitely beat the cons here.
I don’t always use Super into Ultra 1, but when I do, I make sure to know the list.
Here’s a **tiny list of characters against whom landing **
**crossup LK, cr.lp cr.lp cr.mp xx mk super > ultra 1 **
**is pretty much bananas (i.e. tight as fuck, and pretty much irrelevant). Note: the reasoning is air time (they fall too fast), and not range.
The combo described above is, unless proven otherwise, the best universal way to combo into a super after a crossup, and land the ultra afterwards. No range issues whatsoever against any character. You also get enough charge time. Starting with cr.lk will kill the distance and make super whiff on some characters.
You can probably do an empty jump with cr.lk cr.lp cr.mp xx super > ultra 1 on most characters though (apart from the ones listed below, since it’s not advisable to land this combo on them, anyway). Don’t take my word for it since I didn’t test that one thoroughly.
Remember: these characters are hard to hit with super > ultra 1 no matter the situation. It’s about air time and not range. The timing is much stricter on these than others (you can link into ultra against everyone else, and the ultra will hit just before they hit the ground).
On to the list: Boxer Claw Dhalsim Dudley Gouken Guile Guy Sagat* (lands fine on Seth o_O; I know them being the same size is irrelevant, but still… color me intrigued)* Sakura Viper Zangief
Everyone else: Style the shit
( ••)
( ••)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■) out of them.
There’s two fake cross up setups. One with lk and one with hk. The HK one is more difficult to land though but it’s better against Blanka as it’ll stop him from getting out of the corner no matter what he does.
@ 3rd Round. [media=youtube]ULBIaBEFCdM[/media]
I kept messing up the HK version and went directly into the lk version instead as it’s easier to land. I’ve also known about this setup for a few months but couldn’t get the timing down.
EDIT: The lk fake cross up forces the Guile opponent’s flashkick to whiff and pass through while the hard kick cross up stops Blanka from getting out (aka stuffs all of Blanka’s ex rolls whichever ones he uses and makes Sakura’s ex dp auto correct the wrong way for some reason.
Hm. You know what this made me think of, primarily due to haunting my nightmares, is evil ryu’s j.hk. The thing has little to no crossup potential, but it does in forced corner wakeup scenarios. It was discovered because having something like that is key to evil ryu’s gameplan and it was natural that someone would find it. However, I feel like evil ryu’s j.hk and guile’s j.hk are fairly similar. Could you imagine the potential of something like a backthrow into the corner > whiffed normal > free unblockable j.hk > c.mp xx flashkick?
Here’s a wild and random thought to mess up blocking in the corner.
Back throw to corner > whiff lp, cr.mp > forward jump HK (cross up) tick back throw to corner again > whiff lp, cr.mp > forward jump fake cross up lk > cr.lp, cr.mp xx super > Ultra 1. XD
E.ryu is one of the characters I play and I think his j.hk hitbox is really different from Guile’s j.hk although they seem to have the same downward angle. His j.hk alone can crossup/make it real ambiguous to block for many characters mid screen even if the opponent predicts he’s going for j.hk.
I’m not really sure but I believe he has some unblockable setups at mid screen as well against some characters.
Guile’s j.hk hitbox is higher I believe, if you compare it with E.Ryu’s j.hk. I mean the hitbox where the bent knee is or around the groin area.
That’s really clever how he did the Flash Kick xx FADC -> U1. I think he hid the up input for the flashkick during the end of cr.LP, and then returned to charging downback before even linking cr.MP. That’s the only way to get enough charge.
I was right: the way to do this combo is to hide the flashkick’s “up” input. Then the cr.MP can be cancelled into flashkick while holding downback. The idea is to hold the focus for as long as it takes to get the charge.
[media=youtube]cVtP6U-endY[/media]
The hitconfirm combo in the video does a solid 515 damage. The timing is very strict, but there’s probably several frames of leeway due to Guile’s U1 being able to scoop up opponents so close to the ground. This is not very practical though; even comboing into U2 is plenty hard for most Guiles.
Wondering if the up input can be masked inside a blockstun.
EDIT: I don’t think this is so impractical. I just want to understand why the flashkick comes out so late? Does this have anything to do with some charge leniency like the sonic boom?
Yes, this takes advantage of the charge buffer. For both the flashkick and the sonic boom, the charge expires in 12 frames:
frame 0: charge ready.
frame 1: charge let go.
…
frame 11: last valid input for FK/SB.
frame 12: charge expired.
You can input “up” on frame 1, and go to downback for the remaining frames; if you press any kick on frame 11, it will count as a valid flashkick input.
Yeah, it’s possible to mask it there. Can you imagine Guile punishing something with “cr.MP xx flashkick xx FADC -> Ultra 1”? Lol, me neither.
I did the math for this combo, and I have to say… it doesn’t look good. It has 4+ frames of leeway, and for a sequence this complex, that’s extremely low. I might post a more detailed breakdown of this later.
I’ve been trying out this combo by doing :db: c.mp :ub::db:k fadc(holding a little) dash U1. Can’t seem to get it. Is the only way to do it to include the c.lp so that you can do the FK motion first then press c.mp, FK?
Sry for my lousy execution skills. And one other thing I really wish to know is that is it possible to buffer a FK a little before wakeup, then press k as Guile wakes up and then fadc into U1.
