One situation that you can juggle an ultra is landing a LK flash kick at the peak of the opponents jump, if they decide to do a neutral jump and try to hit you on the way down.
As i stated in one of my posts in this thread, juggling a LK Super (with all 6 hits connecting) after an early LK flash kick takes 415 damage which is more than the ultra juggle which is 400 points in damage.
I still think it would be better to exhaust the ultra metre for the juggle as the EX bars are more important IMHO
Regarding FA combos: anyone got anything for max-range dash-out FAs?
I’ll often-times go fishing with the FA and dash out on hit/block if I’m unsure about whether or not I’ll hit.
Usually all I’ll do is sweep (second hit) or jump-in c.lk (reset) and cross-up: pretty poor options.
if the opponent is in the corner, you can ultra them and HK flash kick.
2nd hit of sweep does 140 base which is pretty decent imo, not many characters have good options from back dash crumple. You can roundhouse super midscreen off a backdash crumple.
Oh snap! That sounds like a pretty awesome reset. I never would have thought of that… I can’t wait to try it.
Ya, normally I just get the second hit of the sweep. It isn’t a bad price to play really for the safety you get off of a backdash.
If your fast enough building up the charge, you can dash in Ultra off of the FA back-dash.
Speaking of forward-dash Ultra, I was messing around with the idea of dashing underneath a jumping opponent and Ultra-ing. Since they are jumping they obviously can’t block. And the Ultra will auto correct. Has anyone else been using this to good effect? It seems really situational and hard to land. If not timed correctly, they will land and block. At any rate, it’s one more tool.
cool! i want to try this badly~
I forget in which thread, but Gilley said that once you can hit forward dash ultra consistently, you’d be able to punish any jump from any distance.
good stuff in this thread !
guile love !
Old question, new answer!
At ANY range with ANY strength crumple, you can backdash > jump > back air throw. I always knew you could dash forward, neutral jump, and air throw, but this was new to me.Only does 6 or so more damage and less stun, but offers great positioning.
Anyways, I was also messing around with trying to find a more damaging jump in combo. With some characters, you may only get the chance once or twice, and while c.mp xx flashkick does good damage, I wanted MORE. I fiddled around with j.hp > s.hp xx boom xx FADC > c.lp > s.lp > s.hp… or just the quick s.hk after the dash, but it just didn’t have “oomph” and was rather hard to hit consitent.
Then I messed more with j.hp > s.hp xx flashkick. I figured out the timing on it pretty fast, but it was still inconsistent. But, it lead to the next combo… which is interesting to say the least…
J.hk > hk flashkick.
Ha! Crazy shit to see, but it works! It lead me into the train of thought that you could also just strait j.hk > ultra ( ! ). However, I was unable to pull it off.
Do you have to charge for more frames for the super or ultra? I also wondered how many frames I spend actually doing the motion. Hey Gilley, if you could test this with your macro, that would be sweet. I think it’s possible, just VERY VERY hard.
Well i know fk is 4 frame start up, and ultra is 7
Guile’s jump is 4+36 and hit stun on the j.hk is 18. At best you have 58 frames to use for charge, execution, and startup. According to that, without taking into consideration the time to hit the ground or the number of frames to get back to db after the jump, it’s certainly tight.
Didn’t Gilley surmise that it’s less than 55f for fk charge?
I will test this out this weekend when I have time to sit down a play around with the numbers. Seems like it might be possible, definately on counter hit.
EDIT, yeah I originally said it takes 54 frames to charge for a SB instead of the 55 that the strategy guides say. I have since then fixed my numbers and it’s closer to 55 frames. I found it takes 912ms to charge for guile’s specials/super/ultra. I was using 17ms(1frame) to divide into 912ms to see how many frames it takes to charge, and I got 53.6470588ms. This rounds up to 54. I’ve since then learned that 1frame is actually 16.67ms. So if you divide that into 912ms you get 54.709058ms, which rounds up to 55.
Hrmm… interesting… if it works on counter hit, then wouldn’t it work as a hit-confirm/hit-option? As in: if it’s not a counter hit, you’ll get an ex.fk; if it is, you’ll get an ultra. I’m forcing myself not to get my hopes up.
OK, I just tested j.rh > ultra. It works on both regular and counter hit. It’s looks like it would be really hard to get on regular hit though.
Also, FUCK SF4’s button input system. If you you’ve ever gotten an accidental super while trying to do ultra, don’t worry, you didn’t fuck up. The SF4 button input system is jacked. In the macro for this “simple” combo, I tell it to press all 3 kicks on the same frame. I get random supers and the inputs register wierd.
This is why you see people getting random supers when going for ultras all the time in match videos.
EDIT: I’ve been trying to get far s.fierce > ultra to work on counter hit. The frame data numbers say it’s possible, I just can’t get the macro to work. You can also in theory do close s.fierce > ultra on counter hit.
Good stuff! I figured it was possible and I was just doing the super/ultra input at a speed other than light speed. Did you actually pull this off yourself or with the macro?
I was thinking that it might be useful, but I think there are way too many nuances with precision involved. You have to start charging db off of a jump as fast as humanly possible, hit your jump in as deep as humanly possible, and do the ultra motion as fast as humanly possible.
I had to use the macro to do this. I’ve only once been able to do j.rh > regular FK by myself, so there’s no way in hell I’m going to be able to do it to an ultra/super.
This is pretty serious news:
Dropping the science as usual; good work.
EDIT: j.hk hk.fk hk.super is 464dmg. Not shabby, but the execution cost is higher than the appreciation factor from your opponent. Unless they play Guile, I guess.
EDIT 2: 260d for j,hk hk.fk and 298d for j.hk c.mp hk.fk. waah.
On another note, I’ve been getting pretty consistent with:
cross-up lk/j.hk/j.whatever c.lk c.lp c.mp super (and ultra if possible).
Definitely worth adding in to your toolkit if you haven’t already.
gilley, record yourself doing the j. hk to ultra. haha i would love to see it