I’ve been trying to find some viable VTC conversions in neutral, since the jump-in corner combos are pretty rare in an actual match. Also tried to focus on situations where you don’t have charge. Here’s what I’ve found so far…
ST.MP in neutral buffered into F.HP TC>VTC for some decent whiff punish damage. After the VTC you can do flash kick+super for max damage, triple ex boom for 1 meter max damage, or DF.HK>flash kick for max stun/max no meter damage.
Cross-up empty jump low with the CR.LK>ST.MP>F.HP TC>VTC, same options as above after VTCing. If you empty jump low same side, you can get your back charge during the jump and just CR.LK>CR.LP>sonic boom>VTC>dash>ST.HP>CR.MP into whatever you want. Seems to work well when following a low boom and you get a jump-in, or a safe-jump setup on wake-up.
Regular hit F.HP>VTC>HP sonic boom x5>super (B.LK after booms if you need to get closer), ex boom x3 for damage, ST.HP>CR.MP link will also work if you are close enough. DF.HK>flash kick may work(?) not at home, need to confirm.
There’s a few frame traps that allow you enough time to build charge from a forward dash. An aggressive option in neutral, but an option regardless. However, note these are safe meaty options after a flash kick knockdown>forward dash. They all have really good payoff since they are VTC cancelled from a boom, which allows you to dash>ST.HP>CR.MP combo.
ST.MP>ST/CR.LP (2F trap)>Boom>VTC
ST.MP>CR.MP (3F trap)>Boom>VTC
CR.LP>CR.LP (2F trap)>CR.MP (4F trap)>Boom>VTC. Or if they have 3 frame jab, ST.LP>ST.LP (1F trap)>CR.MP (3F trap)>Boom>VTC
You don’t really need charge for this option, but you can go for a ST.LP>ST.HP (4F trap) and VTC on block to make it safe. If it hits, chances are it will be a crush counter and you don’t really need to VTC, just DF.HK juggle into whatever you want. If it is blocked and you VTC, you can frame trap again with a F.HP (not sure what the frame gap is offhand), and it is typically safe on block from the pushback.
Similar to #5, I’d like to explore what Guile’s frame advantage is when VTCing all his blocked normals.
combos can still be completed by just landing Neutral St Fierce. You do not have to land the jumpin to do the combo and the corner carry is real.
The combos are easy and 100% tournament viable.
You don’t use st.hp as a confirm, you only use it off of jump ins. For the most part you’re going to control the spacing with buttons instead of confirming. Guile can pressure without using full combos since you can follow up booms pretty well.
From my observation of most platinum+ Guile mains, boom loops have limited use in high level play. I haven’t seen one appear in a single match so far and the V meter was more commonly used as a combo extender from mid screen and link into CA or more commonly as a V-Reversal to escape pressure and corner traps. That said, it’s definitely a tool you should have for those rare opportunities where you can get max damage
You forgot to mention the full V meter and corner conditions and the practical use becomes a lot less. It’s has very situational use and strategically isn’t something worth saving the V meter for.
A fully stocked Guile is dangerous as fuck, because like I said and as is show above - any sonic boom can be converted to 40-50%. Obviously this strategy doesn’t work for every matchup, but even without spending bar you can do the above combo substituting the CA for a dfHK exFK and still crack 406 damage ~560 stun - which is still more damage than a raw CA.
If you’re anti-airing with stHP when you can you’re earning 50% v-bar every time. bHP is good for establishing some space and that can net you crush counters as well. Guile isn’t sucking for V-gauge unless you’re V-reversal’ing like a spazz. If you’re spending your super meter on EX-flash kicks and Ex-Booms you’re making the choice to abandon that strategy. I’ve played hundreds of games since thursday and only find myself burning bar in “oh shit” situations when I need to retake control of the pace of the round.
Argue if you want, you don’t have to believe as I do, I dont give a fuck - but the damage potential of V-trigger/Super is huge and I’ve never been meter starved with Guile so I won’t be dissuaded from this strategy until someone shows me ex-boom/ex-FK is better worth spending in neutral.
The carry/combo damage is good, however the throw a boom and have the opponent fully backdash into the corner and take a free jump in for a stun combo is retarded. The other thing you’re neglecting is that Guile might not ever have full V-Meter for this. His V-Reversal is insanely good. Using it is almost always beneficial for his zoning aspects. It’s not about being a spaz, quite honestly against Necalli, Cammy, Karin, Ken etc using it immediately is the best choice.More often than not you’ll use his V-Reversal, but the v-trigger combos are awesome.
I specifically stated above that this strategy does not apply to every matchup. Not using V-reversal against Mika is a death sentence, no one will deny that.
My point is this strategy isn’t bullshit - it works and with our CA being 5 frames, it makes a phenomenal way to end a round with chip when you’re opponent has exhausted their V-meter. Every combo into boom anywhere 1-2 squares from the center could be 40-50% and that is nothing to dismiss.
So it seems to me that the recovery after an FK varies depending on distance. Using Gilley’s data, you should be able to dash forward after FK and get a meaty c.mp, but if the FK hits from “long” range, the c.mp whiffs.
Yeah the prima guide and Gilles data I presume are for point blank grounded hit. When done from far and hitting late active frames or when used as an AA the frames change because guile recovers quicker or the opponent is in the air longer… Or both depending on the situation.
So basically we have to look at our bnbs and our FK setups and get things for each active frame, approximately…
Sounds harder than it would be to actually implement. We get forever and a day to se that our FK hit early middle or late timing or from far or close.
The hard part will be compiling stuff, only to have it be rendered useless by the opponent staying on the ground or doing backrise.
An OS I came up with is to dash in and do st.lk>vskill
If the st.lk wiffed cause they stayed on the ground you will get a v skill to meaty them, but if they quick rises you will get a target combo instead and can confirm into another FK into basically the same setup.
I basically just do 2HP meaty if it’s a long range FK, it won’t be + on block but will be safe, links into 2LP xx flash kick with spacing for a 2MP meaty next time.
I was wondering does anyone have any good chip kill strings? Cr.mp xx boom vtc cr.mp xx mp boom spam mp breaks whiff b.lk ca is what I’ve been using. Are there any decent ones without v trigger?
Edit: My string doesn’t work. I just had a Vega super me in through break spam.
