Ryu can really limit Gouken’s wakeup by just walking to just outside throw range and crouching. He’s got nothing to fear from Gouken, so he can get away with this quite well.
Gouken’s zoning is mediocre enough to warrant him having a better wakeup game.
i dont know if i can handle this thread anymore.
i disagree with almost everything people say about gouken.
he is a good character with very few bad matchups guys.
he also has one of the coolest designs in sf history.
Raun, I have learned first hand that if you whiff the demon flip throw you do not have trip guard. 
It’s a free cr.lk -> whatever. I’ve stopped doing it on wakeup because I just get combo’d anyways after they walk underneath it and cr.lk. Honestly it’s only good if they aren’t expecting it or they do something like DP FADC like you said.
Mr.Beef
1885
If his wakeup game wasn’t on par with Claw’s, I’d be more than happy to agree with you. But as a Gouken secondary, I’m mad as hell. I’m not one of “those guys” who laments that he’s “not a master” etc, but he lacks the tools to hang with the big boys. I’m tired of my options being “block or EX Demon Flip + pray” when I’m knocked down. I’m tired of DF Parry being next to useless. I’m tired of losing counter when my health is low.
I’m just…tired. It just seems like with Super looming in the distance, it doesn’t seem like Gouken players are going to get the tools we need. Denjin is great, don’t get me wrong, but I’d much rather have a completely rehauled Tatsu over Denjin, for one.
you know, when i first heard he had trip guard on whiffed throw, i never tested it.
i just accepted that was true and it seemed to work that way when i played.
after you posted this i went into the training mode and discovered that you are correct!
i was disappointed, but it is still a pretty safe wakeup option.
the time that people have to punish a wakeup ex demon flip with a combo is much shorter than a blocked shoryuken or something like that.
after over 14,000 games played as gouken on line, not once do i remember doing a whiffed ex demon flip throw, going to block and getting punished.
of course, most of the time i just mash throw when i whiff an ex df throw on wakeup, so when combined with the short punishment window on landing and most peoples’ unfamiliarity with gouken, my overlooking the reality of the move’s vulnerability there isnt very surprising to me.
thanks for the gentle enlightenment kikuichimonji!
Akuma vs Gouken + DJ vs Rufus
[media=youtube]ZCu894fcD-Y[/media]
[media=youtube]ZCu894fcD-Y[/media] … his cr.mp > lp hado looks like it still doesn’t combo @ 0:22 (since Akuma focused the hadoken). I’m wondering if they changed his j.mp @ 0:27. His counter looks like it’s still tied to the focus system @ 0:32. Plus he still has to guess high or low without EX. Still can’t do **** off jabs it appears. You guys see anything noteworthy? Denjin charges pretty fast at least.
Damn u Capcom! From the looks of the video looks like the same old Gouken with a new ultra. Jabs and his wake up game still sucks donkey ballls.
That cr.mp to hado was max range mp it looked like, the j.mp was way early… and yes the counter still took grey damage, didn’t see it get glass broken though, who knows, I’m not holding my breath that’s for sure.
Mnszyk
1891
No, the reason fireball won’t combo off anything but a heavy hit is because the start up is really long. His fireballs have the longest start up and the quickest recovery of any hadouken, thats why they give so much frame advantage.
Cosine
1892
amazing…gouken looks…exactly the same but with a new ultra.
Y’all honestly thought that Gouken was gonna something other than an ultra? lol
Maybe in the next game.
Cosine
1894
well tweaks at least, looks to me they just gave him a new ultra and called it a wrap.
Not anything new. But we did think a few of his moves might get tweaked (read: fixed). Apparently not. He looks EXACTLY the same as before. :amazed:
yyyyyep…
also ruan, stop playing shitty players and find out the truth.
you contradicted yourself pretty hard the last thing you said so i lost. right then and there the small respect i had for you.
i do not believe i have contradicted myself at all and calling crazisalvi516 a shitty player is dumb.
you can keep your respect, i dont need it.
Oh well. At least the Gouken mains made their case about what needed to be fixed. He may still be mid-tier. Sadly though, I feel he’ll go into mid-low or worse if they reduce his Ultra I damage (excluding information that develops from Ultra II, of course).
Maybe eventshub is right, nothing changes for Gouken, except Denjin.
However, in the latest video, we have not seen Gouken demon flip, whether parry is non armor breaking yet and no tastu… So maybe still have last minute hope…
I get the impression that they’re lowering the damage of everyone’s ultra across the board. Hard to say if that’ll make Gouken better or worse. On one hand, he does big damage and it’s possible to make some big comebacks happen with him. On the other, backthrow + Ultra is a bonus, not a given. And his EX Palm combo will still do big damage. Furthermore, it might work in his favor that many of the top tier characters dont get a free win off their way numerous setups into Ultra. Overall, I’m optimistic. But we’ll see…
