1681

Thanks exactly how I view them. lol

1682

Don’t treat backthrow like another throw. Pretend Gouken only has one real throw. Instead, treat backthrow as a 5-frame ultra. You can punish certain moves with it, or focus through fireballs, dash up and backthrow.

If you use it when the guy can’t tech it, its usefulness becomes much more obvious.

Gouken’s counter being broken by armor breakers is to be expected. Juri’s counter and Dudley’s counter (I believe) are also this way, even though the way they receive damage from a successful move differs. Don’t be fooled, I think they’re all tied to the focus system. Gouken doesn’t have it any worse (in fact, I’d argue he has it better).

Cammy and Fei’s ultras being broken by armor breakers is pretty ridiculous, though. But I don’t think those moves would have proven to be useful anyway.

1683

Making up numbers? Watch this vid. [media=youtube]A7SKEfiz4no&NR=1[/media] Keep in mind, that’s against Honda who has above average HP. Are you really gonna tell me that doesn’t look like at least 300 damage? Keep in mind, this is uncharged.

Then sir, I want you to watch this vid. [media=youtube]3UDfKwCv-cc[/media] Pay close attention, and I want you to think as well. Slightly after Ken bounces off the wall, he’a about half screen away from Gouken, making MP palm easily usable. I’d also like to point out that MrWiz said you could do backthrow -> Denjin then follow that up. I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t leave out that that only works in the corner.

You’re right, when one assumes they “make an ass out of u and me” but at least when I’m assuming, I have things to backup my claims. You’re assuming that it’s terrible without giving it a chance.

1684

From word of mouth, Dudley’s and Juri’s counters don’t work on the FA system at all anymore. Which means they’re not breakable. There’s a video of Dudley’s Cross Counter working on a reversal Tiger Uppercut.

Also, dash up backthrow works, even on good players, as long as they’re not expecting it.

1685

They don’t operate on the FA system in the sense that they don’t take grey damage, yes. But I believe the attacks are still breakable. If you’re talking about that initial Dudley vs. Sagat footage, that Tiger Uppercut was not a reversal (look again).

1686

The Honda video:
That looked like about 300, but I wouldn’t say it was any more than 300. This video was also not the final build, but I digress. There’s no hard numbers on that video, it’s just what I see versus what you see.

The Ken video:
Yea sure, the wall bounce was probably far enough to land a palm after it, but did you also notice it was a FULL CHARGE? Look at your own post, the Honda video. That uncharged Denjin wallbounce would have NO WAY of landing a palm from how far he is. Do you seriously think following up after THAT would be possible? If so, you might need your eyes checked.

In summation, damage could be there, but it was an early build so I’m not sure it’s still there, and your own evidence contradicts your argument. You want to keep going?

1687

Stand block only and the sooner the reversal the better.

1688

Well giving armor break to cammy/fei confirms juri/dud counters being armor broken, either that or Capcom is just stupid if they didn’t. Still though, :lol: at cammy/fei U2.

1689

Thanks dude! I was crouching this whole time. lol

1690

BTW PJ, it can still miss even if “reversal comes up”

I imagine he could probably Ultra you if he wanted to if the palm misses and does chip instead…

i.e. horizontal roll, you reversala frame late, he Ultras when he lands… yeah, I’ve never had it happen but I’m willing to bet it’s possible.

1691

Thanks for the heads up! I always find Blanka vs Gouken in Blanka’s favor.

1692

Why? Gouken can punish up ball on block, usually punish horizontal ball on block, beat electricity and crossups with counter, punish slides for massive damage, and get out of the ambiguous ultra trap for free with a counter. You can counter Blanka’s j.hk or EX Tatsu it so it’s not like you absolutely can’t AA him. You probably also can force a trade with cr.hp or win with cr.mk, I haven’t tested.

All blanka can really do to Gouken without being risky is try to throw him. And good Gouken players know how to tech throws.

1693

Thanks for the heads up, I dont have much experience with this match up. The sea of ryus and sagats online dont help.

1694

Does the Denjin still work like in SF3, where you can charge faster by mashing punch???

1695

GGs today Sovi3t. I knew that was you!

1696

next time i aint smoking while i play :stuck_out_tongue:

1697

Smoking enhances everything! What you talking about?!?! lol

1698

Key is to stand block the ball. Stand blocking yields less push-back than crouching so it connects reliably. Perform the palm motion whilst blocking the ball so it pops out as a reversal. If you have meter, feel free to then feed Blanka some Super too.

1699

Another thing to keep in mind VS Blanka (when using Gouken) is the importance of c.mk. This normal I swear was given to Gouken for two reasons:

1.) To stuff Blanka’s jump-ins
2.) To stuff Gen’s jump-ins

That’s it. Get used to it. Its speed and odd hit-box is perfect for shutting down Gen and Blanka’s jump-in game. c.hp’s slow start-up combined with Gen and Blanka’s fast jump-in speeds make it a poor choice to AA - especially on reaction. c.mk is brilliant. Especially against Gen.

1700

I just tested anti-airing Blanka’s j.hk (his best jump-in).

[list]
[]Like Gamogo said, cr.hp sucks
[]cr.mk works really well but you have to do it kinda late and the timing is specific. Works at all ranges though.
[]Ultra works every damn time
[]Lk tatsu will always win if you throw it out early enough. If you’re a bit too late you might trade. Oh no, you get to combo into ultra or HK tatsu. LK tatsu is going to be my go-to AA against Blanka.
[*]EX tatsu works but doesn’t get one of the hits unless you do it super late from crouch (but still throws them across the screen so it’s safe).
[/list]

So yeah Blanka can’t jump in.