Ee-no
I say Eye-no, 'cause I know and you don’t! HAAHHA (<-- :lame: )
I swear, I’ve never had slash to air dust chain. Others have had the same issue. Are they sure it’s not the opponent just mashing recover and sitting w/ the stick at neutral or something?
Range characters give me a LOT of trouble.
You so much as try to dash in or leave the ground, you get snuffed by an attack.
It’s always good practice to have the Note out, since it’s your only way of dashing in with coverage. I-No is good anti-rushdown, I think.
Ino
Every one seems to keep having trouble with range characters.
I-no owns range characters. Really. Trust me. You can guide her projectile to hit just at the tip of the top of the standing character and waves dash about 4 paces or untill the projectil begins to hit, and then do hcb,f+k. If they jumped they will eat both, if they were stupid and dashed forward they eat the horizontal neon red cheapness that IS I-no. If you are close enough, frc it and dash in for a combo.
Also, the most important move you will ever learn and master with Ino isnt even in her move list. Its her air dash. Learn to do it… learn to do it as close to the ground on reaction as possible. If you master it you can execute loops.
Loops by definition is besically, you do a standing combo that ends with a hit stun large enough that you can jump again and dash to them before they recover; so that you can continue to combo. Because the person never leaves the ground this can be done multiple times.
Ino has THE best loops in the game. She also has a regular dash that takes her airborn. (Albiet you cant actually loop from it) This means you can make mind games out of this. Her dash is a huge intimidation factor. Once people see what the loop is, they will fear and airborn I-no. Which means… dash in throw, or dash in air combo to ground chain, rense and repeat.
personaly i dont use her supers unless i have to get some one off me, primarily people like eddy, or Sol. When i need to create distance i just throw out her horizantal red beam and people back up off me. because they know i only need to frc once at close range and they will be taking a ride to the other corner. The other good thing about her hcb,f+k is that you can do it in the air too and you can do it multiple times. No one should be able to jump to you cause you can just to standing kick or if they are predictable or far away, dash to appropriate hight and then hcb,f+k. Its a realy annoying move trust me. Abuse it and her dash. Also, once you learn to roman cancle on command you can do her hcf+(any slash) moves to start loops too.
It kinda hard to explain some times, so if you want spicifics i can try to explain it better. I really just wish i could show you. I will try to find a site with the combo since i can exactly record it myself.
later
ok… Now i would be lying if i told you this wasnt where I learned my Ino stuff, but this is what i was talking about. How you can use her dash. I dont really bother with ground chain unless i am setting them up for something or going for a loop. Taking thim in the air is much more preferrable as you can see.
the last hit where she does hcb,f+k can be frc’ed to add more hits in afterward too if you choose to. Either way this the combo of choice after a dash in unless they are cornered.
http://www.fightclub.com.pk/media/data/552/13659Combo_01.wmv
And when i ground chain or duck under projectiles this is the actual loop I use. Very damaging, and the potential for catching people with this is high, especially our “harder range game” people. Just know you move list and range well. When they use a projectile or throw a long limb or weapon at you, duck under it. Or dash over it.
http://www.fightclub.com.pk/media/data/552/13659I-NO_loop02.wmv
This is the corner version. Its easier than the mid screen version, but you will get the mid screen alot more. Unless you are playing some one you know, in which case they will probably begin the round turtling. Never let people have freebies. Meaning, once they are in the corner?..end it. Dont get in the habit of letting people escape the corner trap. Practice on the blocking computer in practice. Learn to not let anything slip out. It will make your gameplay alot more fierce.
http://www.fightclub.com.pk/media/data/552/13659I-NO_loop01.wmv
I dont really use many other combos besides these. I learned alot of my I-no game from these vids. I have other air combos from her dashing overhead as well but they arent as practical for high competition play unless i just want to show stop. I dont have vids of them either, but if you some one wants them for the hell of it just ask and i will type them out. Also if you cant get the button imputs for the vids above i will tell break it down too. But you will have to ask me. I am lazy.
later.
none of your links work
Well, they were posted over a year ago :lol:
One thing I notice as strange about this thread is that nobody has mentioned I-no’s Mikestand as a preposterously good move. It’s solid anti-air once you get the timing down, it combos out of things like a low jumping HS for preposterous damage off of a 3 hit combo, AND it’s cancellable into super. One of my favorite tactics with I-no is to dash in, throw a HS in the air, and start mashing on ->HS It’s scrubby as hell but it’s really safe, depending on the height of the dash, you whiff the HS and get a garaunteed throw, they block the whole thing and you get to push them back into a corner, or it hits and does sick damage. This also works with slash, it’s more likely to hit, so the whiff-throw is out, but the combo is more likely.
And as far as solid anti-air goes, The musical note works pretty well to stop attacks, or AT LEAST break big combos before they get ugly. But I don’t think it gets much better than a tiger-knee’d air super. It punishes pretty much anything that happens near her.
As far as I can tell, I-no’s biggest problem is Sol, which, to be fair, is a pretty huge problem for anyone to have. His standing kick forces I-no to IAD instead of using her normal dash, because the only way she can beat it is to throw the HS guitar through his invincible leg, and she can’t get that high by dashing very quickly. the problem is that if you manage to avoid getting kicked, he’s still got an uber-high priority DP, which gets him out of just about anything I-no can throw at him. Plus gunflames, FRC or not, force I-no out of her best lines of attack. My best trick is to tiger knee a 236 HS go right over the top of the gunflame (right around sol’s head level) it’s risky against the FRC, but it keeps I-no on the agressive, which is important. Or! if you’ve got the space, throwing a musical note over the tops of the gunflame and lowering it to face-level again. it stops Sol-rushdown pretty well. I’m not saying that any of this will win matches for ya, but it’s useful stuff with her and it helps even the playing field against Sol, who has some pretty big edges on her.
On a closing note, some stuff that should, by no means work, but does anyway. (not just against scrubs like me either)
In the Corner against wakeup. jump back, 236 S, 6 HS (it combos!)
Normal air dash from a distance, wait, air super. it Baits out WAY more attacks than it should, especially against millia, for some reason. Probably because she’s so eager to take combat to the air. the super’s just so fast, ya know?
And if ANYONE can show me how to land this air combo, I will personally worship them in my signiture for a great deal of time to come.
P, K, 236HS, RC, Air Super…
I just can’t get the super out fast enough…
I’ve got a lot more to say about I-no, she’s pretty much my staple character, but I’ll just shut up for now.
after I add that abusing her throw as much as possible is a great plan, because it’s a great move, and worst case scenario, you get a blocked mikestand, which is also pretty great, insofar as you can follow it up pretty damn safely.
I’ve got the feeling that I’m the only person still interested in this thread, but I just remembered something really awesome about I-no. from fullscreen, or close to it, if you can guide a 236P into your opponent at head level, you can chase it down completely safely, even if it’s blocked, which eradicates many of the difficulties I-no has against ranged characters. Also, 632146K eats dizzy’s projectiles without stopping to chew.
Ps: use the mikestand more.
From full screen, throwing notes is always a good idea…
Its interesting you seem to use 6H as a central tactic. I only use this really against opponents as an option select for throws but even that is rarely intended. They just happen to be out of range, in block stun, jumping, or what have you. I just find that whenever I would use 6H, I could use another attack such as 2K which has more range, leads to more damage, has to be blocked low, and can continue to mix up on block.
I also havent been impressed when using 6H as AA due to the amount of anticipation needed. With that in mind, you could also use j.P, airthrow, j.S, CL, or even a TK note as AA. Also, in #R you cant cancel 6H so on block while you are somewhat safe due to range, it doesnt really net you anything and just kinda resets the match, which can be good or bad.
IMO it’s better to just shoot a note at Dizzy’s fish projectiles; it’ll stop them and also start exploding, which creates a spot where Dizzy can’t go. CL is good for hitting Dizzy out of her homing projectile though.
Personally, I use the mikestand to mess up the tempo of my strings in the corner, I’ve got some traps that work pretty well on my friends, and I’ve found that the second hit of the mikestand will hit them out of their escape attempt rather frequently. I agree that it’s lost a lot of versatility in #R though, I miss being able to cancel into super. As anti-air, however, I’ve found that it’s really best used as preemptive anti-air, so my apologies for not being clear. I tend not to use the mikestand at full range though, I use it up close much more often. I find that using it as range often makes it fall much shorter than I’d like, and at that range, it’s better to slide, or to do a quick dash and mixup with j.S or whiff j.H to throw etc…
The mikestand isn’t a game-breaker necessarily, but it’s a damn versatile tool, even without the cancelability in #R, and, as a side note, it’s really good against IAD’ers, especially Millia, because it’s just bigger than most of her air moves, and granted, it doesn’t stop the hairpin, but I’ve had some success sitting on the hairpin and throwing the mikestand the moment she rushes me. That might just be me and my group though.
How is #R I-no anyway? On paper it looks like she got raped, but I haven’t tried her out yet. Do the changes make much of a difference?
Well, they definately took some things from her, but I dont think she got raped, I like #R I-no. Lets see her changes:
Even with all of these changes, I think I-no is still a beast. The faster dash sets up more dash mixups, air throw setups, and all around mobility. They did lower her damage with scaling on d.K and weaker normals, but she still does good damage. All this means is that you will have to more difficult combos on average or mixup them up an additional time to get the kill. 2S is still great but with its added 2F of recovery, its not quite as safe. j.D’s added recovery and lower bounce is good because FDC mixups or 5S©, j.D type mixups are much more effective since you dont jump nearly as high. Its bad because it makes combos such as corner 6P, 5H, TK CL FRC, dash j.D, CL, 5S, 5H, CL, 2S CL alot harder to connect on some people. 6H losing its cancel just makes it alittle worse on block and losing the 6H, CL combo. Her lower defense/stun is probably the thing you will notice most and is her worse change.
Smaller throw range isnt really noticable. #R slides are great since they also give her abit more mobility and you cant just throw them on reaction anymore. You also have new combos like on a crouching opponent dash K, 5S,2H,41236S which is nice if you dont have meter. You can then followup according to how well they stagger. The FRC on the HS dive is good I guess since it is something she didnt have in XX. The FRC point is just as she starts to fall so its good to make this move alittle bit safer. I could see in a tight spot you could forward tech out of the corner then 236H, FRC and airdash away or something…but other than that, i only use this if I accidentally throw out 236H. Larger ground super is good, and the loss of the unblockable after the air super is bad, but not horrible. You still get a free mixup, just not free damage.
When its all said and done, I like I-no much better in #R. I think she is more versitle. Her damage reduction is almost negligable since most of your combos are going to be resets anyways, the universal added 1F to jump helps some ground note setups, her faster dash and slides make it alittle easier to lock someone down so you can be more creative with your offense and potentially raise guard meter, I think its much easier to JI the CL and dash etc… I think it is mostly because #R is a better, more consistent game. Her worse change is her damage and stun though, dont get hit…lol
Her grab range got decreased? I sure as hell didn’t notice it. And where did you find that list, and are you sure it’s complete? I mean, I was playing some #R with my friends going to Evo, and I haven’t played in over a month, so, like an out of practice scrub, I threw a disproportionate amount of 236p/k/s (a) I mean, a disgusting amount of them, like over 15-20 a round, and yet I got hit out of them LESS than I ever did in XX, did they gain some priority or something? or am I just using them better?
oh, and what’s this I hear about an FRC 632146K? It intrigues me and I wish to learn more…
Yes, the list is complete, but If you want to see the actual frame by frame changes:
Ground Dash: Moves faster. Larger hittable box in front
Standing HS: Damage 55->43
2S: Recovery 15->17F. Hittable box moved forward
2HS: Damage 46->35
Jump K: Damage 15->13, Startup 4F->5F, Active 21F->12F, Recovery 18F->27F. Base damage correction 90%. Hit box on the sides is smaller
Jump S: Damage 28->23
Jump D: Landing recovery 7F->8F. The FDC bounce is smaller
6HS: No longer cancellable
Defense: Stun resistance 60->55. Defense 1.0->1.125
Jump: Startup time 2->3F
Normal Throw: Range 49->45 dots
Taiboku o Sasuru Te(S): Startup 21->20F, Recovery 16?17F. Moves faster. 6F~15F throw invincibility
Taiboku o Sasuru Te(HS): Moves faster. 11F~23F throw invincibility
Kyoogen Jikkoo(HS): FRC point added 42F~44F ( air 236H )
Madogiwa Desperate: Width of the hit box extended
Genkai Fortissimo: Can now change guard while blocking it
Pretty much the list I outlined before with the universal 1F longer jump added on the list.
Yeah, you were probably just using the dives alittle smarter.
FRC 632146K (CL) is definately one of I-no’s best tools. It it adds ALOT of damage to your combos as well as giving you some different options while rushing. Learn to FRC it asap.
I’ve been using a Goofy new tool with I-no and I just thought I’d bounce it off of you guys.
Quick overhead with j.D. What I’m doing is, from a short distance away, or as mixup against wakeup, tapping jump (or jump forward) and hitting dust immediately. This switches her momentum from jumping, to the air dust, keeping her low to the ground. It seems like a pretty quick overhead to me, but I haven’t had the chance to use it against anybody. Plus it’s jump cancellable, so I follow it up with a jumping P, S, D generally, but if their recovery is sloppy, I can get S, H, D instead.
Nothing wrong with that type of mixup. You could also acheive pretty much the same results by just dashing and attacking. You cant JC if you do that, but its probably alot easier and has more overall use. I use this type of mixup on block with close slash( or any JCable move), JC, j.D, or close slash, JC, FDC, j.S, or 5S, JC, dive.
I actually used it in some matches just recently, and DAMN was it effective. It not only works to smack down people who block low on wakeup, but it’s good overhead-low mixup after my classic dash-HS ->whatever. PLUS, it actually comes out faster than any of the quickdash attacks. Except for MAYBE dash-kick, but to be honest, I can’t quite tell. If you wanna pull out some frame data for me I’d be very appreciative.
I tried to time the two of them using the attack clock in training, but as far as I could tell, the air dust comes out in just under 5 tenths of a second, whereas the dash kick comes out in just over 7 tenths of a second. Add in the higher versatility of the dash kick Plus its bigger hitbox and I think I’ve found my favorite overhead.
It’s also great to use from a pretty substantial range (one full backdash plus a little more, to be precise), and should give footsie-players a few problems. It goes over things like Slayer’s c.K and most characters c.D. Say goodbye to ducking against I-no.
Oh, and I’ve been working on some Impossible Dust combos, any suggestions? To set up the ID, I’ve been using S H, then qcfp to get to the ground. but I dont have any ideas from there, any suggestions?
some regular dust combos with I-no would be nice too…
EDIT: I was playing around with my quickdust trick and HOLY CRAP IT’S A CROSSUP!!! Jeebus. You have to wait a SLIGHT bit longer after the jump to land it as a crossup, but it’s a great crossup, It’s overhead, it’s fast as hell, it has combo potential, and with the JC ability, it’s nigh unpunishable… And yes, I did completely verify this, Set the training dummy to guard and made KY block in the opposite direction. Talk about potential…
MORE EDIT: Plus, with the jump-install, you can do a second Quickdust after the first. doing a couple of bounces off of their guard really fast (plus they’re screwed if they try to counterattack, it’s SO FAST! and to keep pressure on, Cancel the second dust into qcf P into another overhead-low mixup. Like C.slash, or tiger knee qcf H or EVEN MORE QUICKDUSTS!!! plus, the second quickdust can crossup as well, and crossing up somebody crouching is way easier than a standing opponent.
oh, and it combos into the air super too…
For frame data, you can just go to http://gamecombos.com/games/ggxx/char/ino/ino-sys.html
for all of I-no’s GGXX frame data. But incase you dont want to look, j.D is 16 frames whereas j.K is 4 (5F in #R). But, you have to factor in how fast it takes to jump and attack versus how long it takes to dash and attack. So for a quick overhead, j.D would come out in 18 frames (2F jump in XX 3F in #R) at the earliest while dash K would probably execute earlier even considering how long it takes to dash and reach a height at which j.K will execute. You can also use j.S which can cover distance quickly since it is 8F. j.D does have a much larger hitbox while being somewhat deceptive so its definately useful. I like to J.D sometimes to hit jumpers while still mixing up. If anything, its good to know all the options since they are all overheads that hit at slightly different times.
For Impossible Dusts, I have pretty much done the same as you. j.S,H, 236P and combo. I dont really use dusts, so I havent experimented with it much.
For crossups yeah j.D does work well. I probably need to work this into my game more just for variety, but I havent really tried many setups for it that would be any better than just throwing a note. When are you using crossup j.D? I prefer to use SJ FDC, j.S as a crossup which combos into 236S, 5P,5K, CL (and if you can JI, alot more). I think its alittle easier to hit crouching opponents with a crossup FDC j.S than a crossup j.D as well as less chance of j.D whiffing even with the crossup.
I think SJ FDC crossups are muuch easier in #R because of the lower bounce of the j.D. In XX, you had to be fast and precise with your FDC otherwise you would bounce too high for a deceptive or effective crossup. In #R, the lower bounce pretty much cancels all vertical motion, so you have more time to FDC while still maintaining a good mixup.
P.S. Incase you dont know what SJ FDC crossups are, they are pretty simple to understand. When you super jump and crossover your opponent, you turn around in the air immediately (as opposed to normal jumping and staying facing the same direction until you land). Well, all you have to do is FDC when you SJ over the opponent and j.K, j.S, dive or whatever for a quick overhead.