Hey guys. I’ve been playing Balrog since the beginning of vanilla, loved him since. I can plink decently, and am a generally pretty good player. Problem being, I can hold my own in almost all matches, excluding a good viper or a good zangief, But Ryu and Ken players are really starting to get on my nerves. And no I’m not complaining about flowchart Kens or anything stupid like that, just balrogs ability to deal with crossups. So far I’ve figured out, If i can read my opponent well enough and they do jump, If i hit cr.hp I can hit them out of it. I never use st.mp as an AA for no good reason, but That probably has more leeway. I, after MANY lost matches do to people just obsessivle jumping over - crossup - mixup, have assured myself that no specials counter them, NONE. The worst part is I don’t have the kind of reaction time to hit hp as soon as they jump. When I really focus on dealing with crossups I get caught of guard and they reversal my hp with a hp shoryu or throw.

Try to not get the wrong idea here, I can block random crossups in my sleep, but they just get me frustrated. Can anyone give some tips on how to properly take out crossups?

Thanks,
Drambit.

fadc works for non ex cross ups

Oh and I guess absorb and dash might work, but most of them option select an armor breaker that is also invincible like a dp or something.

Depends what you’re talking about. If you mean cross up your wake up, a headbutt…CAN work, but it won’t usually because it takes a day and a coffee to start up. You’re kinda stuck for the most part, reversal Focus BD not withstanding. If you’re talking about the [c.lp jump over]x N that so many people online do then jump back fierce it.

Option selects are your friend. Block the C/up, then press LP + LK + MP + MK and backdash (enig prolly has the link for this particular trick). If done right, you will either tech the throw or FADC backwards, it even escapes armor breakers like DP

I’m generally alright with crossups thus far - Occasionally I eat it (We all do from time to time when it comes to the trickier jumpers [Gen for example]) but overall I do ok. For me I try to note a few things… If you’re talking about non-wakeup crossups as in, they attempt to cross you up while you’re on your feet, then:

Spacing - If you’re in a position where someone can cross you up on your feet, you’re too close. This can mean certain characters with high jumps will completely bypass a well reacted/timed DFierce and leave you eating a combo for free during your recovery. In the footsie game you want to be back’n’forthing in and out of poke range, looking to counter their pokes and whatnot - While doing this you’re typically always in a range where any forward jump can be AA’d by DFierce.

If they do happen to jump when you’ve walked a bit close and you know they are likely to crossup / you are unable to AA, there are a few options.

Block - The go to.

Focus Forward/Backdash (Whatever direction goes away from them) - Balrog has a great dash so depending on how deep they jumped / distance, it can be pretty safe. Some characters, of course, can punish and most will do so if you try this on a real deep jumpin where your Focus Dash doesn’t get you far enough away. It’s best used for jumps that go quite far over you as you’ll absorb the attack and typically dash to a safe distance where their attacks won’t hit before you’re recovered, or just whiff completely.

Walk Forward, CS.FP - People with good reaction times do this occasionally - While the opponent is attacking in the air, they end up behind you / you behind them if you continue to walk forward (Only really applies when they jump while you’re pretty close - Balrog is pretty big so this won’t work at medium distance, they’ll land on your head), so the crossup-attack wont hit - Meanwhile you slap them with a CS.FP before they land as a punish.

Auto-Correct EX RU or EX DS. Bit awkward to execute consistantly but EX RU autocorrected can really deny a lot of this shinanigans. Worst case scenario, they use an attack that will peel off the armor of EX RU and you end up infront of them again - Depending on what was used, you may recover in time, or you may still eat the following damage. Alternatively you may fail to auto-correct but end up going under them and ending up at a safe distance fully recovered. Best case scenario you AA them and are beside them to abuse their wakeup.

Forward Dash (Turn around) Sweep. I like this versus some characters because those who are hasty with Jump-Over OS’ may end up doing something unsafe. In addition, if you forward dash into Sweep, it has a decent success rate versus most of the things other chars throw out when they land as the range is great and the speed is good. Requires reaction though and there will be times this’ll actually lead you into eating damage instead.

Auto-Correct L.Headbutt - Works sometimes but due to it’s massive startup, doing this late can lead you into big trouble. If it doesn’t autocorrect at all it may also land you into bigger trouble.

CS.Strong - Has decent vertical range and I’ve seen some great-reaction Boxers use it so it hits when Balrog turns around while the other character is above his head. It’s very fast so requires a lot more finess to hit, sometimes you may miss completely and is likely far more character specific than other options.

Just my 2cents.

Smart.

Thank the Japanese for that.

I don’t have a vid for the focus-tech :confused: thought about making one with defensive O/S but never got around to it. It has pro’s and con’s, but will definitely get you out of 50/50’s involving cross-up jab/throw mixups. It’s totally beatable though (e.g. cross-up, cr.mk xx hk.tatsu will probably beat it).

Also it will lose to all armor breakers if they hit you while you’re charging. In general DPs don’t break armor, but hit more than once. Reversal DP’s break armor, but given the cross-up situation they won’t be able to reversal, which just leave’s sagat’s angry scar powered up DP which can break armor no matter the situation. IMO the focus tech is most useful for DP xx FADC, DP/throw mixups (e.g. Sagat).

Thanks. DP Throws own me a lot too, I notice seth players tend to abuse that.

God damn this is really starting to fucking piss me off! I was just playing online for 30 minutes and there was 3 different kens doing the exact same fucking thing winning every time. Jump mk jump mk SHORYUKEN ultra jump mk jump ex tatsu. in a completely random order. Cr.HP Doesn’t counter anything well unless you’re on perfect reaction. this is regular jumps as well. 50% of the time it gets beaten outright, 50% it trades, it never hits straight up. st mp is even harder to use. The focus + throw backdash option select is the best thing I’ve seen for negating crossups and even then it is still fucking hard to use. At first I kept timing it wrong and hitting focus while they hit me with crossup, than I started blocking and then using the option select, which I teched 2 throws out of 14 matches, focus dashed a bunch of cr mk which comboed into anything else all the time and beat me every time, or they simply ultrad and won. Most of the time though what happened is They went for crossup mk and I blocked and option selected, but it actually places him IN front of you, which leads me to dash in the wrong direction and then get stuffed. I was seriously so tempted to rip my disk out of the ps3 and snap in two, fuck this is making me salty. I can’t think of anything more cheap.

How about jump back HP. If they are to close to you to cr. HP, jump HP works for me. And you have to be very spot on with you AAs, get that “perfect reaction”. If c/ups are their game, then you shld get a read on them early on and break their routine. Cheesiness only gets people so far, if you show them that cheap doesn’t work on you, they will stop. And if they don’t, you will win in the end.

Oh, and one other thing, it sounds like you are allowing them to get to close to you. Have you thought of zoning them out with sweeps and st. HP/HK?

I zone as best I can, but one mis-timed sweep usually leads to them going for a jump in or tatsu or basically anything unpunishable and they get in.

If you can block c/ups, what I could suggest is blocking the air attack, then back-dashing right after that, the moment you hear the sound of impact.

That usually works, but then again if they are spamming crossups non stop the main reason it mixes me up in the first place is because depending on both jump arc and distance it sometimes hits forward, and I instinctively dash in the wrong direction. Hk is better for zoning, I didn’t say sweep was better, I just prefer sweep, I don’t mind taking a little bit of extra risk to go for a hard knock down.

  1. Judging directions is down to experience, nothing can be done abt it. Just play more.

  2. This risk you talk about with sweeps, is what gets you crossed up in the first place. If you MUST sweep, do it, then on knockdown, dash BACK. to maintain space, and allow you to cr HP.

TBH, whining abt crossups only gets you so far. If its really a pain for you to deal with, get a friend to play with you, and spam c/up shenanigans till the cows come home.

Balrog has tools to beat cross-up spam. Personally, if it’s something you deal with on a regular basis, it’s most likely because you’re lacking in another area, i’m not knocking your skill or anything like that. But from neutral, balrog can control pretty much all the space around him except a small narrow triangle right within st/cl.mp but in front of his head (i’d make a picture, but i’m really lazy right now), the only thing Balrog (and by extension the majority of the cast) has a lot of trouble AA from neutral is dive kicks and instant air ex.cannon spikes because they hit in the range where balrog doesn’t have a GOOD answer for. ex.dashes work, but can be unsafe.

Practice your normals, know they’re ranges and control space. Use ALL of your buttons, every one of Balrog’s buttons is a good button if you know when to use it. Play matches without using specials, or just using the absolute basics: normals, focus attacks, throws, jump-ins. Given there are ranges were an opp can jump from neutral and it’s not easy to AA, in those situations you’re going to end up using far st.hp or cr.mp. This may also help…DON’T BE AFRAID TO TRADE WITH CROUCHING FIERCE. When you adopt that mentality, you’ll be happy, like literally, you’ll smile when an opponent gives you an opportunity to cr.hp, promise. :]

I wish opps would give me the opportunity to cr.hp. (I think all of us assume you’re not talking about Zangief, that’s a different conversation)

Yah Later Iater I’ll probably spend a solid hour in the lab with a ken spamming crossups and see what happens.