Balrog’s best option on wakeup is to block. You can block and mash backdash, not all players (esp online players) think past you blocking the jump-in, some do. With gouken, just learn not to AA with headbutt, dive kick can make it whiff and the focus (air parry), is really powerful against it. He stuns too fast to let him get opportunities to get heavy starters. IF they jump alot, ask yourself the question “Why CAN they jump on me a lot?” It’s probably because you keep getting knocked down or you’re doing a bad job of anti airing. Fixing either or both of those issues will probably lead you to more questions, but will probably resolve the issue you are having.
He could also Focus Attack (absorb and/or hit) then backdash, his opponent’s jump in most cases too.
Yes, this is also a good option. Like all options not infallible. Beware of opponents who have Ultra’s that can catch your backdash. Most characters can punish it on reaction by double-tapping/mashing a long range poke (e.g. cody st.mp or Fei Long cr.hp/cr.hk) OR reaction ultra (e.g. Gouken U1/U2). So you can hypothetically put yourself in a situation that’s worse or the same. But if they don’t punish it, keep doing it until you’re too scared to do it anymore.
So I really have no idea what to do in this match up. I had this match earlier and it made me think that I have trouble against most charge characters as well. I know if Bison Slides, or scissor kicks to close it’s punishable. I also don’t know good spacing or options to get out of his scissor kick pressure.
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Most Bisons will at some point mash crouching short. Pester him with crouching jabs/stutter step jabs. For example, cr.jab, pause, cr.jab, cr.jab, cr.short xx Headbutt OR cr.jab, walk forward cr.jab, st.HK (CH), sweep OR even shimmy is good too
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If you find you’re being locked down, you can use the occasional EX dash punch to charge through.
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If Bison is using the Devil’s or headstomp followup and not landing behind you or in direct anti-air range, you can raw U1 him when he semi-close to the ground (otherwise your Ultra will hit him when he’s still airborne)
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If Bison is predictably using EX psycho to escape the corner or you have good reactions to Bison pass through you with Psycho Crusher, you can punish it with a reversal U1. This will ALWAYS auto correct to the correct side.
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Generally pick your options carefully, after a blocked scissors. After you block scissors, Bison has these options -
1) st.MK/st.HK ** (stop your neutral jump/jump forward/pressing certain buttons)
2) cr.LK xx LK scissors ** (this usually isn’t possible with Balrog’s hurtbox, since he’s legs aren’t kinda tucked away while he’s crouching)
3) Headstomp (Stops neutral jumps and potential jumping out of the corner. However, if you manage to walk back and it whiffs, go for a punish)
4) Random EX psycho (If you think he’s going random, prepare to punish with super or U1) -
Finally try to be a little more optimal with your punishes. If you block EX scissors then punish it with at least a cr.jab, cr.short xx Headbutt OR cr.jab xx EX rush upper loop.
P.S. Forgot to mention, go easy on the overhead punches. Try to limit yourself to one per match, or at least one per round. And be aware of meter usage. Having super sometimes isn’t a bad thing.
I’m working on actually putting video content together for the forum. (hi to those that might remember me!) - Sup 3nigmatic!
Some of winning match ups is practicing against ‘this dude always does the same thing! is this unblockable or what!’ The easiest way is to breakdown the things that are beating you and also think about the footsie spacing.
@OneTimeHeroii
@3nigmat1c - I agree with the majority of your lists but I also feel like it is much simpler to just mark match ups as 6-4 instead of 5.5. I understand how you might say that is terminology for “slightly favored” but think of it this way.
7 - 3 - Heavy Favored
6 - 4 - Favored
5 - 5 - Even
4 - 6 - Disadvantaged
3 - 7 - Heavily Disadvantaged
Does this make sense for everyone? I think this is why the way Ed does his ratio makes sense.
How do you here deal with Ibuki as Balrog? I’m not really sure where to stand and one knockdown feels like death almost immediately. I keep seeing that the matchup is close to even so I know I have a knowledge gap somewhere.
Edit, double post, sorry.
Also don’t forget that a lot of things may be changed or now insignificant after USF4, esp Sakura.
I totally dig it, i’m just really nit picky, there are things i feel i can’t ignore to say that a match is “generally this way”. But definitely if you look at it like that then PR’s numbers are definitely on point.
The last person that did some work on the Ibuki matchup was Dafro, and that was a LONG time ago. I may be able to dig up the post somewhere it was pretty big. TAP and ex.smash are OK (but not great) answers out of Kunai vortex. Generally she can’t O/S or punish TAP if she’s doing kunai vortex, she can if she does a jumping normal. I haven’t seen this disproven quite yet. So TAP is a get out of jail free card to an extent, but you can be punished if you do it and she DOESN’T throw kunai. Also if she does DP and throws kunai, don’t headbutt, cr.hp.
3nigmat1c, if you block Ibuki’s EX DP, you can just dash under and get a full combo. Even if she doesn’t throw the kunai you still get a punish after you dash. A really funny and actually good punish vs Ibuki EX DP is just hold forward and ultra 2 when she lands. Even if she does the kunai, she’s still at -2 and will eat the full ultra.
What’s the best full combo you get after the dash forward?
I always knew that it was considered the ‘best’ way to deal with it but never really do it. (usually resorting to making a read and focusing)
Might’ve found something decent against Seth. On his wakeup, if I stand outside of cg range and focus, I can backdash if he does a dp or try and punish a normal he sticks out.
Keep it tucked away. I’ll confirm for myself this weekend, but some buddies who have tried out USF4, have said that Seth got the nerf bat pretty hard and he’s a much different character. All dp-FADCs being -5 on block is a huge change across the board. Also his DP was nerfed, Fei Long’s dp can beat it if that’s any indication of its difference from AE to Ultra.
I got some time to play a lot of Balrog in USF4 and wanted to touch on a couple of interesting points about new matchups.
I feel that Rolento will be an incredibly difficult match for Balrog due to his pokes. Rolento outpokes Balrog on the ground and has serious AA game. Balrog can’t poke Rolento with normals at all. BUT, Rolento has a significant amount of recovery on all of his normals that are out of cr.hk range. So i feel that in this matchup specifically, Balrog will be whiff punishing with specials like dash straight etc. That and baiting heavy normals and jumping in, his cr.hp has at least ~40+ frames duration, i was able to jump in on baited/poorly spaced cr.hps and get full punishes.
Poison is also a very interesting mid-range zoner. She’s got a really safe rekka that’s maybe -1/-2, it may be a definite match to utilize U2 in just to be able to punish rekka when necessary and maintain pressure. I didn’t get a lot of exp with Poison, but expect to have some significant sit-down with some of the new characters and Balrog at Texas Showdown. AFAIK, Decapre won’t be on the version at Showdown, but we might be surprised.
Also Congratulations on all the Balrog’s that made top 16 at Final Round. It was good to see that many boxers in top 16, has to be a record or something.
Is Rolento shaping up to be what Fei is like right now, apart from the dp and chicken wing?
Never seen that many Balrog players do so well in a major. I watched one of the Balrog players named “Brian F” on stream. Really impressive Balrog player. Unfortunately, he ran into Cammy (IIRC) in his second match I think and just got Cammy’ed.
I’m pretty interested to see how Decapre plays. Definitely giving her a go, at the very least to see how she plays. I don’t mind her being a charge character, but having to piano or use the slide technique for one her specials could be a pain.
Rolento doesn’t feel like Fei, he feels a lot less mobile, his move set is significantly more defensive: he has a command roll that only goes backward afaik, and his super also rolls backward, his kunai hits in front, but he can only do it from neutral or jumping back etc. He also has a sick U2, it’s a full screen slow hit, kinda like Sim’s U2 except its a grab and goes the other diagonal direction. He’s unique enough IMO.
Brian F was one of the first Balrog players I approached, he’s from Florida i think. Really cool guy, very talented. Hope to see more of him. Speaking of Cammy I got Cammy’d too lol, K-Brad was my second match, but to be honest my nerves got the best of me which is strange, wasn’t that bad the last time I played him in Baltimore, but i didn’t win there either. Maybe next time :<
Decapre looks a lot cleaner in the latest build, they polished up her animation (https://youtube.com/watch?v=g5Ur6Npo1wk, if anyone’s interested). In comparison to how she looked at FR17 (awful).
@BadtouchV Hey, so Antonio (3nigmat1c) wanted me to come in here and give an opinion on the Balrog - Hakan match-up since I’ve had pretty good experience against him. First of all, the matchup is a little bit in Hakan’s favor, only due to his knockdown -> mix up potential and since Balrog has no good reversal moves and bad wake up options. Don’t forget, the uncrouchable Oil Dive setups on wake up. Annoying.
Before we go into the match up, let’s talk about Hakan. He needs to be oiled up for all his annoying wake up set ups or his far command grab to be a factor. With oil, Hakan has great fast normals, his slide goes farther (and from a certain range it can be safe), his movement is immaculate, and his grab range increases. Without oil, Hakan is slow, slow normals, slide doesn’t reach far, and his command grab sucks (like Balrogs U2 :P)
So back to the match-up, Hakan ONLY dominates with oil on and when he gets a knockdown. As a Balrog player, you already know how to play patient and your footsie game should be on point. So DON’T get knocked down. Play the footie and lame game until you see Hakan loses oil. Your normals play a huge factor into this match up just like his will. If you play it lame enough, Hakan will try to get in and with good defense on your end, it won’t work and Hakan will have to try to oil up. Once you see Hakan oil up, punish it with Dash Punch or TAP if you have it charged (Hakan can duck under TAP though with Coward Crouch (has to be EX) so Dash Punch is better to use). Once he loses oil, Hakan is free but you still have to watch out for random slides or anything that could Hakan to oil back up. Once Hakan loses oil, rush him down. Watch his meter cause they will always go for EX command grab when they get pressured too hard. When you knock Hakan down, you can also neutral jump - HP on Hakan (assuming your watching out for U2) and it’ll beat out all of his options. When Hakan starts punishing your N.J HP with air grab or standing HP (if you time N.J HP right it will beat this option out), then you know the Hakan knows his shit. That’s when you play the smart/lame game. Other than that, Hakan can’t do anything to you if you stop all of his options (like every other character) and cause his “random” play isn’t a factor since it isn’t so good. When Hakan is under pressure and the have no other options, they’ll probably go for a random slide into oil. So all you have to do is watch your feet.
This match-up only becomes bad when you get knocked down. When knocked down, Hakan gets to play with his food. Crazy oil dive set ups, short short short short into command grab,… all that. When you get knocked down, just watch what Hakan does. Once he messes up, just go straight back to what you were doing before cause he’ll need to oil up some more.
Summary/What you need to know:
- DON’T GET KNOCKED DOWN!
- Footie/Lame/Punish game needs to be on point (some people really don’t know how to correctly punish things)
- Don’t respect Hakan
I think I’ve covered everything. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask me!
GT: GeoMonstaah
I’m in dire need of some match-up help. It’s Fei Long… What can I possibly do at all to that character? Playing footsies is complete and utter suicide. Almost any button I press is a huge risk in Fei’s favour. If I try to play it safe, his rush down completely blows me up. Trying to get in close is also nearly impossible and when I get there, it’s really easy for fei to push me out of jab range. He can also punish almost every thing I can possibly do with massive damage… Not to mention is incredibly ambiguous and fast cross up game and command grab.
I’ve been fighting a Fei for weeks now and it’s always a shut out… I’m at a complete loss… It feels like a 9-1 match-up right now. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
You need to be more passive in this match. Like you can’t “aggress” against Fei Long. You have to let him come to you, you have to let him kill himself. I’m not saying let him walk all over you, but you have to make really good decisions since almost 100% of all the situations are in his favor. None of your buttons at mid-range work. Don’t press them. Most of the Fei Long (esp online), you can’t really train them as in they will do the same thing OVER and OVER again. I don’t really have a good body of knowledge to tell you how to beat Fei Long per se, but i can tell you a couple of things that will probably give you an idea as to what you could be doing wrong.
At most ranges you can’t press buttons. YOU CAN’T PRESS BUTTONS. If you feel like you have to take that literally, you should not press buttons until you figure out where you can. At mid-range and full screen, Fei Long has really good answers to all of your buttons: Focus Attack, cr.hp, rekka etc. So don’t. Don’t press buttons after Rekka, don’t press buttons after chicken wing, don’t press buttons after DP FADC forward. Don’t mash jab anywhere other than within throw range.
You can focus crumple Rekka’s, but they can always do the second rekka to break the focus. Look at his tendencies, if he always does two rekkas (since the second rekka can be safe at a distance), ex.ru through the rekka’s, but know if he doesn’t do the second one, he can punish you. You have advantage on the second rekka on block (non-ex), use st.lp. He can punish jab straight on block, don’t do it (or if he can’t punish consistently, punish him for trying). He can punish TAP on reaction with CH cr.mp, rekka. So don’t do it. I feel that in this matchup you have to let Fei Long kill himself and have REALLY good defense. If you can get a good read on his chicken wings (which he’ll use to blow up stand techs or ex.dashes, you can perform a low attack so it whiffs (https://youtube.com/watch?v=vC71I7WsPvU). Think to use it in situations where you’d go for a throw. You can also use U2 to punish a lot of his attacks in the corner (OH on block), anything other than the first rekka (any strength). RyuApprentice has a good video on what not to do (https://youtube.com/watch?v=SysBwULLaxo).
If you can get a match post it to the video’s thread and i’ll give an analysis.