hey guys dont know if you already knew this but i thought id share what ive found for safejumps on 3 frame dp’s. however it only works in the corner for this particular setup. when oppnent is in corner -> forward throw -> immediately whiff standing medium punch ->neutral jump heavy punch. hope this helps 
when you do the nj.HP do you have to hold back on it so you move back? I assume the reason it’s safe is because of the space, DP won’t hit you because you’re too far from him? I dunno how does it work.
yup i hold down back for nj.HP
heres a recoring i just did
[media=youtube]42vZwz7iNaI[/media]
awesome! Already started using this
Awesome tooserius glad i could help
[media=youtube]kcZiRJfSJ_c[/media]
For those who didn’t want to sit through the entire 7 minutes, the meat of the vid is when he says that you can avoid most mid-screen unblockables by holding offensive crouch (down+forward) on your wakeup, and then right as you wakeup, stand blocking (Back). As most unblockables have to hit high (e.g. Dictator’s j.hp), if you crouch for the first frame on your wakeup it shrinks your hitbox and gives you extra time to block. That may be good for SOME unblockables, i know it’s not true for all, but for an unblockable to work it can’t be meaty (I believe but i’m not 100%, it hits 1f or 2f after you wakeup giving your hitbox time to expand and for their hitbox, the one that can’t collide with yours, to shift in front or behind you).
Rough list of unblockables (i tried to only get the ones against Balrog):
[details=Spoiler]Vanilla Unblockables (projectile)
[media=youtube]wIM9xFvJwaE[/media]
*Honda
SJ - fwd.throw, fwd.dash, cr.mk, j.mk
- whiffs on crouching Balrog
SJ - ex.hands, cr.lp xx ex.ss, cr.hp, j.mk
- depends on not teching the knockdown
UB - bwd.throw, cl.hp, j.mk
- Honda must be in the corner
*Akuma
SJ - fwd.throw, fwd.dash, j.mk
- throw into corner
- Ken, Ryu, Akuma (only pre 2012)
UB - fwd.throw, 2xfwd.dash, j.lk - throw into corner
*Blanka
UB - bwd.throw, fwd.dash, j.mk (only mid-screen)
- test with j.mk O/S cr.hp/cr.hk
- try with focus dash j.hk instead of just fwd.dash
- [media=youtube]LhOCIiaJvOY[/media]
*Cammy
UB - bwd.throw, st.mp, j.lk/lp (Cammy)
- bwd.throw, cr.lk, j.hp (Chun-li)
- bwd.throw, f~mk, j.lk/lp (everyone else)
- can be ducked
- works on Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Chun, Rufus, Guy, Cammy, Viper, Oni, Evil Ryu
- works on Makoto, uncrouchable
- Not a 4f safe jump (loses to guy’s ex.tatsu)
UB - bwd.throw, delay, walk forward, lk.cs @ peak
UB - bwd.throw, st.mk, j.hp - works on Akuma, (Rufus, Hakan)
- uncrouchable
- [media=youtube]By-mWMxnCn0[/media]
UB - cr.lp, cr.lk, st.hp xx hk.arrow from CS11-12 (cannon strike) - Works on Yun
-
Cammy unblockables
UB - bwd.throw, tiny step forward, whiff cr.mk, j.lk - Works on Dhalsim and Dictator
*Chun-li
SJ - fwd.throw, fwd.dash, j.hk
- Whiffs if you hold forward
- Works on Cammy
*Cody
SJ - bwd.throw, j.hk
SJ - ex.cu, fwd.dash, st.lp, nj.hp
UB - meaty ex.rocks
- Zonk knuckle, mp.rocks, U2
- may not be possible
*Deejay
UB - ex.mgb, hk.dk (2 hits), lp.fb, cr.hk, U1
*Dhalsim
UB - lp.fb, df.mk, tk.U2
- works in the corner, either get grabbed by U2 or hit by the fireball.
- meaty lp.fb in the corner?
UB - fwd.throw, lp.fb, FADC.fwd, U1
*Dudley
UB - meaty rose into U1 (Check desk/bifotasty)
UB - lp.ju, mk.ducking, rose, U1
*El Fuerte
SJ - bwd.throw, step forward, st.lp, j.hp
- Cammy, Ibuki, Akuma, Dhalsim, Guy, Hakan, Fei Long
*Evil Ryu
SJ - FA (crumple), fwd.dash, cr.hk, j.mk
- corner
- Seth & Fei Long
SJ - fwd.trow, walk back, st.mp, j.mk - Ken, Dictator
UB - fwd.throw, slight step back, pause, j.hk
UB - fwd.throw, cr.hp/st.hk, j.mk
- corner only
TKO’s Evil Ryu unblockables
UB - fwd.throw, slight step fwd, dive kick
- Sagat, doesn’t work in the corner, can’t combo
- T. Hawk, has to block it forward, can’t just-frame block
- Blanka, has to block using forward, he can electricity to get out of it, but all the blanka ball’s lose.
- DeeJay has to hold forward to block it
- Adon can walk underneath it, if he holds forward.
*Fei Long
SJ - bwd.throw, walk back 2 pixels, j.lk
- Dhalsim
SJ - bwd.throw, walk back 1 pixel, st.lp, j.lk - Ibuki
*Ken (confirmed)
SJ - fwd.throw, step back, j.hp
- [media=youtube]UfolrY0Lkrk[/media]
*Guy
SJ - bwd.throw, st.hk, j.mk
- unblock able against Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Dictator, Dan, Hakan, Guy, C. Viper, and Rufus
- use J.hk on Sagat and Cammy
SJ - fwd.throw, 1x.jump, j.mk - C. Viper and Cammy
*Hakan
SJ - oil dive, fwd.dash, bwd.dash, j.hk
- unblockable vs. Rog Fuerte Fei
- [media=youtube]Tb-3JkHBTl4[/media]
SJ - oil dive, f+hk, fwd.dash, j.hk - Balrog, Ryu, Ken
SJ - Air throw, st.mk, st.mp, j.hk
*Ibuki
SJ - ex.nb, mk.dash, walk forward a bitm j.lk/j.mk
- Ryu
AJI- ex.nb, lk/mk/hk.dash, j.lk
*Juri
SJ - j.mk, cr.mp xx lp.fb FADC U1, f.mk/j.mp
- T. Hawk, Zangief, Akuma
*Dictator
SJ - fwd.throw, walk a step fwd, j.hp (not meaty)
- Guile, Cammy, Guy
*Makoto
SJ - bwd.throw, cr.hp, mk.axe
- crosses up Yun, Yang and Honda
- Unblockable vs Fei Long, Guy, Sakura
SJ - ex.chop, fwd.jump, mk.axe - crosses up Chun, Ibuki, Boxer, Dan, Cody (whiffs crouching)
- unblockable (standing) versus Gouken, Claw
SJ - ex.chop, st.hp, j.hp - crosses up Guile, Blanka, Seth, Gouken, Dictator, C. Viper, Abel, Zangief, Rufus, Fei Long and Cammy
UB - st.mp, st.mp xx ex.chop, j.hp, U2 - Unblockable versus Seth, C. Viper on the 2P side
*Oni
UB - fwd.throw, lp.swipe, j.mk
- Akuma, Gen, Cody
*Rose
UB - st.hp xx hp.reflect, U2, Soul throw, lvl3 FA
- hits after 2nd orb
SJ - lp.ss FADC, j.mk - ?
*Seth
UB - spd, boom, FADC 2x fwd.dash, U2
- midscreen
UB - bwd.throw, mp.boom, U2 - midscreen
UB - legs bnb, lp.boom, U2 - midscreen
UB - lp.boom, wait, U2
SJ - spin kick bnb, 2xfwd.dash, j.hk/dive kick - only works if you tech the knockdown
*T. Hawk
SJ - lp.spd, j.lk
- unblockable Ryu, Ken, Sakura, Fei Long, Ibuki, Akuma
*Yang
UB - 3x.rekka, FADC, hk.dp, U2, 2xrekka, j.mk
- Fei Long in the corner
*Yun
UB - U1, j.hp, cl.mk, lk/mk/hk.dk
- U1 in the corner
- Guile, Makoto
UB - Cr.hk, qcf.lp, cl.mk, lk.dk
*Gen
UB - fwd.throw, lp.roll, j.mk
- Yang, Yun, Akuma
UB - lk.oga juggle high gekiro (no quickstand) - Rufus, Akuma, Cammy, Guy, Zangief, T Hawk, C. Viper, Ibuki, Dudley, Makoto, Juri
*Sagat
UB - fwd.throw, fwd.jump, low ts xx FADC U1
*Ryu
UB - fwd.throw, st.hk, j.hk/j.mk
- corner only
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sFLPp6c79Ts#t=170s
SJ - cr.hk, j.hk
SJ - fwd.throw, st.mp, j.lk/mk - works in the corner also
SJ - bwd.throw, cr.mp, j.hk[/details]
Somewhat of a confirmation of what I was saying:
[media=youtube]KYweRkQ-zfw[/media]
Meaning that to beat the “unblockables” we have to know whether the setups normally hit as a cross-up/non cross-up and just frame block the correct direction which may be easier/harder depending on what frame the unblockable hits at.
A related example that may make more sense than the above explanation:
[media=youtube]gz7_yut9f50[/media]
Ok so I played a ranked match yesterday against a Sakura and a Bison. Both games were really close. In both matches Sakura and Bison were crouch blocking while I threw out j.hk yet it still hit them (it was the killing blow during the Sakura matchup). I found it odd since it isn’t an overhead so I went to replay to check and sure enough it showed them blocking but getting hit anyway. Can anybody explain this because I am beyond mindblown right now.
wait wait wait, j.hk is an overhead.
If it’s a normal used while your character is considered “airborne” it’s an overhead. Some command normals don’t follow the trend, but in general all “normals” meaning you just press one button are overheads if the opponent is airborne.
It’d be a cross-up if they were stand-blocking and it still hit them. Did you phrase it wrong or did you mean what you typed?
Ropedrink posted a video a while back of a cross-up j.hk on a Bison. Situation was that they weren’t blocking or pressed a button, but it still crossed up (visually).
Hi guys, it’s been a while, I’ve been playing as much as possible with Balrog over the last couple of months since moving to a different country. I don’t have my console with me so for the first time I’ve discovered the wonders of the arcade. I’m improving much faster than I was on Xbox Live purely because the competition is consistently strong and, most importantly, you can keep playing the same people rather than just a series of one off matches. I have a couple of Sagat specific questions and one general question:
-
My footsies are still pretty shoddy so a lot of my damage tends to come from wake up and momentum rather than slow chipping away of the life bar (not just Sagat, this is true of most of my match ups; exceptions that immediately spring to mind are Zangief, T Hawk, Blanka and Honda). On Sagat’s wake up my modus operandi is to get right in his face and let him invariably burn two bars (that may just be the player rather than the character, this guy’s Sagat is very aggressive). The player is high level, probably the best I’ve seen in the arcade, so his reactions are good enough to only uppercut if I’m close enough for him to FADC. I’ve tried going point blank and then backdashing as he wakes up but I always get caught by the edge of the uppercut. Does Balrog’s backdash invincibility (6 frames?) last long enough to completely dodge Sagat’s uppercut? I’m pretty sure you can’t backdash Ken’s fierce uppercut from point blank for example. I feel getting right in the face of a character with an FADC’able uppercut is (a) just asking for trouble and (b) handing them back the momentum; I’m more doing it because I feel it’s the least bad option against this guy. If I hang around just outside uppercut range on his wake up then I sacrifice any chance of pressure and don’t even get him to burn those two bars. Any thoughts?
-
I know Balrog has one of the best sets of normals in the game (second after Bison?) so I suspect this is my deficiency rather than anything else, but for some reason I struggle to punish Sagat’s whiffed normals with my normals. Both his standing MK and HK seem to have a strange attribute where his low hurtbox almost moves back. I’ve tried standing just outside standing HK range, for example, and reacting with sweep but the few times I’ve managed to react in time the sweep has gone under his body but not actually reached his standing leg. I haven’t had much success with standing HK either. Most effective has probably been standing far MK as a predicted counter rather than an actual whiff punish (i.e. drift into standing HK range, drift back out, hit standing far MK and get the counterhit before Sagat’s kick can come out). I’ve had moderate success with far standing jab but that seems to have a nasty habit of trading in the opponent’s favour. Do you find Sagat difficult to deal with in footsie battles and if so, what would you say are your key tools? I feel there may be time to walk a little bit forward after getting Sagat’s standing HK to whiff but it doesn’t seem anywhere near as slow as, say, Ryu’s sweep yet still has good range. This whole question can probably be taken with a slight pinch of salt because this guy is definitely a better player than me so it makes sense he’d be able to do more with his tools. I’m just looking for anything to swing the ground battle in my favour.
-
The general question. I’m in the early stages of jab option select sweeping which is exciting (I think it looks so cool). I’ve used what I thought was the correct method several times in matches over the last few weeks and it’s been working = simply pressing crouch jab once on opponent’s first frames after wake up and sweep a split second later (not plinking it though). If the opponent does nothing I just get one jab, then a pause, then I usually go into another crouch jab. If they backdash obviously I get the sweep. I now hear the correct method is doing one crouch jab meaty (I really haven’t got to this stage yet, CR.MK meaty maybe, crouch jab only has two active frames so it seems very tight) and then hitting jab again at the exact same time as sweep to get either two chained crouching jabs or the O/S sweep. What is the advantage of the second method over the first method?
Thanks for reading and any help much appreciated.
Before going into specifics, i’d suggest watching these two videos:
[media=youtube]ajvoh5pcPbY[/media]
input is cr.lp, cr.lp+cr.hk you press it like you chain it, One after the other.
[media=youtube]BsJ5dieHtgk[/media]
Sagat punishes, may help you out. Also check out the article posted in the video description.
[media=youtube]VI9aBRqPPRQ[/media]
hitbox overlay of punishing his st.hk with cr.hk
To answer your questions directly:
[LIST=1]
[]He has a decent amount of invincibility on backdash. The issue is that his hitbox is fucking huge. It’s really difficult to get away from it in time. It may be also useful do to a fake meaty (you need to eye ball it). if you do cr.lp on his wakeup (e.g. NOT MEATY), you can recover in time to block. This is another option. Also it may make some sense, just to stand really close to him on his wakeup and use the delayed focus-tech backdash. If he does reversal dp, you block, if he does delayed DP it’s not a reversal so doesn’t break armor and you can still absorb and backdash, he throws, you tech. Try that out.
[]it’s timing, you should press the button as soon as you recognize the attack whiffing. There’s plenty of timing at least 10f or so. More explanation in the article, so read please. I think j.hp and headbutt are better attacks against Sagat. The easiest punishes are BAD tiger shots. j.hp and headbutt punish the two when read well.
[*]setups for meaty jab are: (1) cr.hk, j.hp, cr.lp (2) fwd.throw, fwd.dash, j.hp, cr.lp You have to buffer the cr.lp like an O/S, it will give you perfect meaty timing (2nd active frame).
[/LIST]
Hopefuly that helps, keep us posted!
Thanks 3nigmat1c, that’s massively helpful. I’ll work on the correct technique for crouch jab O/S sweep. It’s amazing I have ten frames to punish ST.HK, it really doesn’t feel like that but I suppose that just means my reactions need to improve. I’ll test out the meaty crouch jab setups and try to learn focus tech, which I’ve known about for a while but avoided learning out of laziness.
Punishing tiger shots with headbutt is something I have been badly neglecting up to this point. I played a Ken a few times today and there were several times I reacted to a fireball with HP headbutt which I wasn’t even thinking of doing before. I’ll let you know how things develop.
with the focus-tech, you can shortcut it, and just set no taunt, and use the 3P+3K method, makes it a bit easier even though you have to dance around the buttons.
Aw man I thought I found something cool :(. Oh well thanks for letting me know.
Don’t be afraid to post, even if it gets disproven really quickly. Just be as specific as possible so we can recreate and test things out. There’s always a possibility that you may not quite get something, but that someone will get an idea from your setup and find something new and exciting.
Okay, so this is an idea i’ve been playing around with for the better part of a year, and i think i’ve figured out a really good application for it. Okay, so some of you guys may know (or may remember me posting about) or may not know at all, that Balrog can FORCE DPs to trade in a way where the opponent can’t FADC.
If Balrog does a meaty cr.mp at certain ranges on an opponents wakeup, he can force the DP to trade on later active frames which can’t be DPd and Balrog won’t be picked up but will “fall out” of the animation and their DP will continue its whiff animation and Balrog is free to punish. This happens because the DP hits the absolute corner/edge of Balrog’s hurtbox but doesn’t pick them up all the way, similar to the glitch where Chun li would get hit by a tatsu and be able to walk out of it mid-animation and recover instantly.
So this was my “complete” idea. Combine this setup with a meaty cr.mp xx lk.ru/ex.ds or other dash punches you can create a two step frame-trap so to speak. Since it’s really hard to punish a delayed crouch-tech and go for tick-throws, this situation can take away an opponents ability to go “…i’m just going to DP since I have two bars” to “I can’t because I can’t FADC anymore” to "Oh shit, now I have to really “figure out if I want to tech early or tech later”.
Also I want to point out that a meaty cr.mp will hit on the first wakeup frame and the opponent will be standing. Also on CH or being really meaty, you can combo into cr.lp.
The remainder is theory
meaty cr.mp will work very will with 3f dps and be more consistent against DPs that don’t have full invincibility. But i think it has a lot to do with the hitboxes (Keep in mind that in the frame data, groups of active frames will almost certainly have different hitboxes). These are the setups that I’ve done in my head that will probably give the intended result in terms of frame data, but not in terms of hitbox arrangement:
cr.hk, walk-forward, walk-backward, cr.mp
cr.hk, fwd.dash, fwd.dash, cr.mp
headbutt, delayed TAP, cr.hk, cr.mp (off of un-teched knockdown)
fwd.throw, fwd.dash, fwd.dash, fwd.dash, slight step back, cr.mp
I’ll do some research this week when i get back to Houston (In B-more) and will see if anything comes of this.
Played with the 3f safe jump found a while back:
DEEP CORNER fwd.throw, cr.mp/cl.mp/st.mk, wiggle back nj.hp
Meaty on the absolute last 1-2 active frame, so depending on what frame you hit on, the opponent can crouch/offensive walk out of it. All DPs will whiff.
As far as the tech, I tried it out, and it “DOES” work, just not as applicable as i’d like it to. I think this works really well against Ken. In general, i feel it’s not universally applicable versus 5f dps and all of Ryu’s DPs. Using meaty attacks like far st.mk, cr.mp, and cr.hk, can cause all of Ken’s DPs to whiff or trade-whiff at certain ranges leaving him unable to FADC, and you for a full punish.
My current conclusion is that Balrog’s hurtboxes on his long range normals are fucking silly, they’re HUUUUUGE. The only ones that seem possible to make this happen consistently with are far st.mk, far st.lp and cr.mp. On ALL of his long range horizontal normals, very few have the hitbox situated far apart enough from the hurtbox. cl.hp has a really good hitbox, but Balrog has to be to close for this to be useful against DPs.
yay…wall of posts by 3nigmat1c. Found this: http://www.youtube.com/user/MrStevokanevo
The name sounds hella familiar, like vanilla sf4. Anyway, at a glance it seems as if he has some really good Balrog tech videos. I’ll update this post after I look at them.
[media=youtube]aOEQmpLbMus[/media]
[media=youtube]5kuc7itMWVU[/media]
OK, in the off-chance you need to punish Yang’s U2 on block (for whatever reason). Punishes are as follows:
Everywhere
[INDENT=1](Block grounded hits), backdash, delayed nj.hp, cl.hk, cr.mp xx ex.ru cr.lp, cr.mp xx hp.hb[/INDENT]
Mid-Screen
[INDENT=1](Block grounded hits), backdash, slight delay, jump back j.hp, U1/st.mk xx super[/INDENT]
Corner (Balrog in corner)
[INDENT=1](Block grounded hits), backdash, Charge focus, Focus Backdash U1/Super (Do it like you’d be doing backdash ultra and it’ll auto-correct into the corner)[/INDENT]
The reason these punishes are complicated is that he has active frames once he gets in the air so you can’t just jump back to maintain your charge and punish. Because of those active frames you’re forced to block and stay in place so Yang will almost always land behind you (even in the corner) and at the last minute so you lose your back-charge. To punish w/o meter or without ultra it may require doing some self-charging combos etc.
Late Unrelated Edit:
Balrog’s U2 can reversal punish the 2nd hit of any of Fei Long’s rekka (even EX) on block when Balrog is in deep corner (doesn’t work mid-screen). Might make the matchup a bit more interesting as that’s where Fei Long wants you and what he will use to make guesses/chip you out at the end of the match. 1st hit is still even on block so not directly punishable.
Hey guys new to the forum. Just got a quick question regarding M Bison’s ultra 2 when you are waking up.
I was playing this Bison who would knock me down (hard knock down) and then land a meaty ultra 2 (the one where he jumps in the air) and it would connect 100% even if I tried to do ex headbutt (which I thought had invincibility…). I tried jumping, still got hit, tried back dashing, still got hit. I came on here and saw that TAP supposedly beats it when U2 is meaty but I tried in training mode and it still get hit.
Not sure what I should do to get out of this? I know block works, so is it just a 50/50 guess and hope you block it?